Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
The SCOTUS has upheld it as a legitimate form of taxation which, pursuant to the 16th amendment, no longer needs to be apportioned among and collected by the states but may be levied on an individual basis directly by the federal government.Originally Posted by Vuk
Of course, the 16th was adopted without too much trouble since it was made known that it would only be for the purpose of levying a 1% income tax on America's highest wage earners. Which is all it did.....at first.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
How can one say that Germany is nothing? This is absurd. Even after being torn to bits by the allies and russians in WWII it is still the beating heart of Europe economics wise. It is THE country to talk about when we are talking manufacturuing. German cars and industrial machines are a staple for quality, not American ones.
Germany was divided, a lot of intellectuals and scientists were moved to either the USSR or the USA. Most of the inventions claimed to be done by the USA are actually done by European (and mostly German) scientists.
That Germany waged sucessfull war in WWII versus so many opponents is a feat of military prowess which the USA has not even come close to matching. All your wars were versus two-bit third world countries. And even then you sometimes got your arses handed to you (Veitnam). In fact, if Hitler had not spared the British troops the war might have been a tad bit harder, especially since the USA and Canadian navies suffered heavy losses to German submarines.
It is also a fact that the heavy lifting in WWII was done by Soviet troops, and the fall of the Wehrmacht was due mainly to lack of minerals and fuel to resupply the armoured corps and Luftwaffe. Is their modern army not up to the same standard? Probably. But they have they industrial capabilty and the discipline to get back at it if they WANTED to. But warmongering and stealing resources is left to other powers...
How can a country which has FEMA camps, Detroit, inbred hillbillies, a moronic "2 of the same" party system and children's beauty pagents think itself the best thing to grace God's earth after sunlight and fertile soil? Wait, you grace the soil with Monsanto's poisonous GM crops and give yourselves cancer. I guess that qualifies you.
What about your economy then?
USA GDP - Mar 31, 2013 13.75 trillion
And here is your debt, which is a figure I can't even prononunce.
Some econonomy...
Last edited by Myth; 09-30-2013 at 11:48.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
The debt is 16 billion if you use a proper system of counting.
Using the anglo system it's 16 trillion, so a bit higher than their GDP, about two months' wages for the average hard-working burger flipper.
All the money was spent winning the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan though, so it was absolutely worth it since Bush was also better than Obama because he bailed out the banks.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
Yes. Let's bail out Goldman Sachs because giving the guys who make money out of thin air even more money is a good idea.
Also this.
Last edited by Myth; 09-30-2013 at 12:36.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Like totalwar.org on Facebook!
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
Or.. we could just say 16 T$ (tera dollars) which incidentally would be understandable in all nations? SneakfrenchifisationThe debt is 16 billion if you use a proper system of counting.
Status Emeritus
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
Myth Germany lost because it was arrogant, had a big mouth and didn't have the ability to back it up.
Amateurs fight shiny metal object vs shiny metal object. Professionals talk logistics.
Not just the wealth and industrial might to be at war and develop nuclear weapons, nor the industrial might to rebuild an air craft carrier faster than your enemy can conceive it (Midway), the ability to supply both USSR and UK with the materials to fight against an arrogant aggressor and build ships like the liberty.
Then add to it after the Allies defeated the Axis the industrial might to rebuild the economies from scratch. If you want an object lesson in the intent and capability of the US then compare and contrast what Japan and Germany did to their occupied nations and then compare how Western Germany did vs Eastern Germany.
Western Germany was so prosperous that unification for them was a scary thing as the debt to bring Eastern Germany up to scratch was massive.
So lets get real here. WWII Germany was a bunch of bully boy facists who lost most of their great scientists before the war even started. The only awards for logistics that won were best slave and concentration camps and mass graves awards. They started a war, they got trounced and lost all their colonial assets.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
On the bright side, their fabs are mostly using machine tools with 1946 and later dates on them, for some reason....Harley Davidson was -- at least as of the mid 1990s from my own personal inspection -- still using machine lathes and such that were constructed in 1901.
On the other hand, I was never quite so dismissive of European success and approaches as were some posters. I have only asserted that the USA has, traditionally, been unwilling to shoulder the total tax burden typical of a Western European social democracy -- A level that I suspect is necessary to begin to cover the cost of the broader social services/safety net provided.
I am more than willing to acknowledge that the USA has a debt problem. I rather suspect that my preferred solution choices would meet with little support on this forum.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
Meh, since when has the Org been a popularity contest? If you can't air strange, unworkable, half-baked, lunatic theories on the Org, where can you?
Also, when are we allowed to declare a thread terminally derailed? Seems to me the merciful thing would be to take this one out behind the chemical sheds and shoot it.
I seem to recall there was something about healthcare, but that was another country, and anyway the wench is dead.
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
Of course logistics plays a key role, and it is closely related to the issues I pointed out:
- Not enough steel to manufacture spare parts (this includes trucks which are what makes an army supply go forward)
- Not enough fuel for not just tanks but also for the non-combat vehicles, so the forward positions were left woefully undersupplied
So much was the issue that a unit of 50 veteran foot soldiers was ass signed to a single anti-tank cannon (I know the name but can't spell it and not make a jackass of myself since I can't spell in German)
In any event, your notion that Germany lost because they got arrogant is too linear IMO. It is never this simple, and never this black and white. First of all, Germany was set up for WWII. Poland was committing genocide in Prussia and waving their d**cks at Hitler from across the yard, knowing that they had a secret deal with France and England that they'd back them up if Germany invaded.
Hitler surrounded the English army on the atlantic coast and could have captured/massacred them. Instead, he let them go, to show a gesture of good faith to Churchill, who then insisted that the war continued.
Stalin was preparing for war regardless of the German invasion. As such, picking a war with the USSR wasn't Hitler's biggest mistake (as some say) but rather the timing of it and the objectives.
Thinking they could thwart mighty Russia in 2 months time (dreadfully short summer in those parts) IS arrogant. And not counting in the fact that Russia had dirt paths and taiga for infrastructure also... And the biggest one (after letting all those Brits go to their island kingdom) is throwing so much manpower in capturing Moscow. Amrygroup Center was essentially wasted effort. He should have gone for Stalingrad and get the Caucassian oil fields and the iron and coal mines in the Ural mountains, then entrench for the winter.
WWII Germany with enough oil, steel and manpower (from occupied Europe. And not all people were opposed to Nazi rule. It sure as hell wasn't teatime and pancakes for the Ukranian folk. Hell, they viewed the German soldiers as LIBERATORS) could keep a firm hold on Europe that the USA would not be able to crack sans nuclear weapons.
Also, excuse me if I'm wrong, but Germany was actually closer to getting nukes than the USA before it all hit the fan... Regarding occupation - German occupied countries did just fine. The most prosperous countries in Europe now are direct descendants of the HRE (Germany, Austria, Northern Italy) or are Scandinavian. USSR occupation is what made Eastern Germany (as well as Poland, Czheckoslovakia, Serbia, Romania and Bulgaria) so bad. In fact, this example defeats your own - the German people, when left to freely pursue their industrial and disciplined way of life, can and will build a country that is just awesome.
Germany lends money out now, the USA borrows money. I think that's pretty obvious. Hence, you can see the value of each economy. The real produced and exported goods and services.
That the USA supplied airplanes to the USSR and sent ships to help Britain hold out was remarcable. I admire them for that, but it is, after all an entire CONTINENT and all it's industry directed to war manufacturing. But I say again, if Germany didn't have so much on its plate, the USA would really have a hard time projecting power on continental Europe. Imagine D-Day with a well supplied, veteran, entrenched Wehrmacht waiting for you...
That the USA is a megapower because it can now sustain its economy and mass produce weapons is known. That it has the best power projection in the world currently, is also fact (navy, marines, airforce). But for a country which was left to its own devices on an entire continent I'd rather say this was expected. The industrial might to rebuild France, England and so on is no argument here. Germany was torn inside-out. Entire factories were dismantled and moved to Syberia. There was so much devastation that if this happened to modern day USA you'd spend all your money bailing out your insurance companies... Seriously, America let Detroit happen. Have you seen pictures of post-war Berlin? Have you seen it now?
If I didn't want to try and make something of my life here, I'd probably be living in Germany or the UK. Not in the USA, despite having the option to go there.
Last edited by Myth; 09-30-2013 at 17:29.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
Like totalwar.org on Facebook!
Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly
It's a rather silly notion: 'Germany could have won, or at least survived WW2, if absolutely everything went right for it.' Sheesh.
Heh, they were once the Germans got through genociding them.And not all people were opposed to Nazi rule.
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History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
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