US Federal Government Shutdown

[Lemur]

if you rely on the government for services you are a Democrat.

Not sure how to unpack that dense brick of wrongness.

First of all, if you think Americans vote in their economic self-interest, then you haven't done any reading on the subject. I mean, you haven't even glanced at Wikipedia. You haven't bothered to learn anything on the topic.

The "base" of the Republican party is old and white, and takes more Federal dollars than any other group of non-veterans. And more importantly, they don't see it as a handout. I tried to explain to a hardcore Republican friend that his mortgage deduction and EIT credits were both middle-class payoffs. His head nearly exploded. The notion that the forgiveness of a tax debt was a payment, while obvious to anyone who has ever worked with an accountant, was utterly foreign to him. He refused the notion point-blank.

(This is pretty typical. If I'm receiving a payment or benefit, it's my hard-earned right and it's fair and it's just and equitable. If you are receiving a payment or benefit, you are a parasite and a leech and I'm not gonna pay for your damn lifestyle.)

And then there's this:



So, yeah. And then there's the fact that you consider me, a moderately successful dude who has actually started businesses and done okay in the private sector—what was your word?—an "outlier," or an "anomaly," or whatever the word you used.

Gah. Slowly, so the whole room can follow the idea: Americans. Do not. Vote. In their economic self-interest. (Or, to be more precise, the link between economic self-interest and voting patterns is "extremely weak," as the researchers say.)

Other point: You do not get to define who is in what party. People self-identify, and if they say they are Republicans, they are. If they say they are Democrats, they are. The moment you position yourself as superior to other people, judging who deserves to really be in one party or another ("Oh not him! He's a RINO!"), you self-identify as an arrogant ass.

-edit-

You treat the government like a protector rather than a parasite.

Another dense package of wrongness.

I view governments, corporations, cooperatives, LLCs, partnerships, unions, armies, and navies as ways to organize human beings and resources. None is inherently superior to another; all have their appropriate application. All can be parasitic, all can be beneficial. Depends on the cirumstances, context, and (most importantly) the truth revealed by real-world application. This is called empiricism. It also used to be a core element of conservatism, before that word got corrupted beyond all meaning.

[Ironside]

Less free. You stay and work on your family. It doesn't have to be a prison if you love one another. Life without a strong family is a miserable thing. The good news is that every person can build strong family. You don't have to be related by blood. Find a spouse after years of getting to know them. Make good people aunts and uncles to your children. Be good to them. Adopt children who need support. Support those that you love.

These are great tips, but there's some points here missing. Your old family did mysteriously disappear, which are often needed to start anew. It certainly helps that your wife doesn't have a territorial battle with the mother-in-law (a common occurence among the old family based farmers). You don't need to finance them either.

And finding a new one is something that comes with aging and maturing, something you don't have when young.

And that's not counting those old people without children, for whatever reason.

Reliance on the State is an empty road to nowhere. Start building at home. Too many people have written off real support systems as a result to the State. While the State is a good crutch when you need one, I see people walking around every day with 10 to 20 crutches.

The reason why the state systems exists are because what you call real support is unreliable. The US are more charitiable than Europe, but that's far from covering the difference in taxes. People doesn't crash and burn because they know they have support system and there's way too many people who are addicted to those crutches. Take away the state's ones and they'll find new ones. Make them learn to walk, walk with them and yet they'll immidiatly run back to those crutches when they have the chance. Repeat ad nauseum.

It's not the state that makes them do this, it's who they are.

While not a common topic, start to listen about the snippets you get about people's families. Seriously, it's no wonder why it has always been a common book topic.

The only degrees that the state pays for should be online degrees. They cost a fraction of what university does and people can work while they are in school. I worked full time during school and commuted.

That depends on what you did read. There's a lot of difference in work effort between different programs.

"Balance the budget!!! But don't touch the 80% that's holy (debt interest, military, social security and medicare/aid)! And don't you dare raise the taxes!

I think there's way too many Republicans that don't know how much those programs cost. If you feel that they're about a third of the budget, of course the state is big and wasteful.