Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 320

Thread: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

  1. #1
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,554

    Default What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Answers on the back of a postcard please....

    Well they are all going to be sued for implementing slavery in the West Indies. We've been here before havn't we?

    As my RL name is of Norman extraction, I'm going to sue France of my bit of Normandy. Then the Romans. I wonder if I could get something on Nebuchadrezzar.

    Discuss....
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

    Member thankful for this post:



  2. #2
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,550

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    I think you should pay because it's important to be tough on crime.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  3. #3
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    It happened, but a person who has any dignity wouldn't ask for money.

  4. #4
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    I think you should pay because it's important to be tough on crime.
    Tough on crime only applies when it's someone else doing the crime.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  5. #5
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,554

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Funny thing is, my step-mum used to think that only blacks were enslaved. That was until I educated her about the Barbary pirates.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  6. #6
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,853

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Answers on the back of a postcard please....

    Well they are all going to be sued for implementing slavery in the West Indies. We've been here before havn't we?

    As my RL name is of Norman extraction, I'm going to sue France of my bit of Normandy. Then the Romans. I wonder if I could get something on Nebuchadrezzar.

    Discuss....
    If we get sued for implementing slavery in the West Indies, do we get to bill them back for the costs of enforcing the abolition of slavery? The costs of running the Royal Navy, by far the biggest navy in the world, for nearly century has to amount to a fair bit.

  7. #7
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    East of Augusta Vindelicorum
    Posts
    5,574

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Funny thing is, my step-mum used to think that only blacks were enslaved. That was until I educated her about the Barbary pirates.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_slave_trade
    Not enough! go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery..._British_Isles

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-iri...e-slaves/31076


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

    Member thankful for this post:



  8. #8
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,691
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    HoreTore's kin invaded my lands. I require compensation in the form of large amounts of oil money so I can sleep at night.
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  9. #9
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,853

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    HoreTore's kin invaded my lands. I require compensation in the form of large amounts of oil money so I can sleep at night.
    One of those vikings was a cnut.

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  10. #10
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    You're gonna paaaay, you're gonna paaay, you're gonna paaay.... La-la-la-la... you're gonna paaaay...

    Disregarding the moral point you guys are trying to make when you compare Viking raids to colonial exploitation, legally they have a much better case, since there is a legal link from British Empire and modern UK, which does not exist between Viking tribes and modern Norway...

    On the other hand, international courts and organizations are funded and controlled precisely by those former colonial powers. So, it's kind of like suing a guy because he took something from you and finding out he's the judge presiding over the case.

  11. #11
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,550

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    On the other hand, international courts and organizations are funded and controlled precisely by those former colonial powers. So, it's kind of like suing a guy because he took something from you and finding out he's the judge presiding over the case.
    Except if you consider the point Fragony makes in every post about Europeans and self-flaggelation.

    If the British don't want to pay for the West Indies I say they can start by giving us all the reparations back that we paid them since WW1 or they could get used to being called imperialist opportunists and hypocrites.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

    Member thankful for this post:



  12. #12
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Except if you consider the point Fragony makes in every post about Europeans and self-flaggelation.

    If the British don't want to pay for the West Indies I say they can start by giving us all the reparations back that we paid them since WW1 or they could get used to being called imperialist opportunists and hypocrites.
    Self-flagelation is strictly verbal.

    "Oh, we're so very, very sorry for that. It was ghastly of us, we apologize. I'm personally ashamed of my ancestors. I wish there was something we could do... What did you say? Reparations? Well... Oh, I'm sorry, is that the time... We have to go. How time flies when you're having fun. Ta-ta."

  13. #13
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,853

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Except if you consider the point Fragony makes in every post about Europeans and self-flaggelation.

    If the British don't want to pay for the West Indies I say they can start by giving us all the reparations back that we paid them since WW1 or they could get used to being called imperialist opportunists and hypocrites.
    Erm, it's part of the school curriculum, under History. Also, I wouldn't mind us being billed for slavery, as long as we get to bill them back for enforcing the end of slavery.

  14. #14
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,853

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Such a payment would come from taxes, nobody alive today who pays taxes is responsible for slavery, ergo this is stupid.
    Stupid though the claim is, I still wouldn't mind the claimants paying us for the cost of maintaining the Royal Navy for a century, scaled to 2013 levels.

  15. #15
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Such a payment would come from taxes, nobody alive today who pays taxes is responsible for slavery, ergo this is stupid.
    Nobody alive today who pays taxes was responsible for ww2, yet current German taxpayers still pay for it.

    Countries are entities in foreign policy and international law. Just because there's a new generation doesn't mean international treaties and international law doesn't apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Stupid though the claim is, I still wouldn't mind the claimants paying us for the cost of maintaining the Royal Navy for a century, scaled to 2013 levels.
    First you'd have to prove that the sole purpose of the Royal Navy for a century was to enforce abolition of slavery.
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 10-11-2013 at 18:59.

  16. #16
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,550

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Erm, it's part of the school curriculum, under History. Also, I wouldn't mind us being billed for slavery, as long as we get to bill them back for enforcing the end of slavery.
    That was already weird the first time you mentioned it.

    Do you also offer thieves payment if they stop stealing stuff? You didn't maintain the Royal Navy for altruistic reasons, that's just laughable.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  17. #17
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,853

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    This "reparations" isn't something that could actually happen could it? Holding modern people responsible for their ignorant and conquering ancestors is the height of stupid.
    If they're prepared to pursue that logic, I'd be happy to follow it as long as they follow the subsequent course of that logic as well. The UK pays for each slave that we'd been involved in transporting, paying their descendants wages for their work and compensation for work-related injuries and deaths. They in turn, since their logic is based on the immorality of slavery, pay for the upkeep of the Royal Navy that enforced the stoppage of slavery on the high seas, paying for the building and maintenance of the warships that made it feasible, and the training and wages of crews that did the enforcement, including compensation for work-related injuries and deaths. I'd wager the second lot of costs is many times that of the first.

  18. #18
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,554

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    You didn't maintain the Royal Navy for altruistic reasons, that's just laughable.
    I dunno, it was pretty altruistic because it pissed off the French.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

    Member thankful for this post:



  19. #19
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Common sense has to enter in somewhere. Modern Germans paying for WW2 is just as dumb.
    UK held on to Hong Kong until a few decades ago. Did modern generations had something to do with that?

    You can't pull a "common sense" just where it suits you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    If they're prepared to pursue that logic, I'd be happy to follow it as long as they follow the subsequent course of that logic as well. The UK pays for each slave that we'd been involved in transporting, paying their descendants wages for their work and compensation for work-related injuries and deaths. They in turn, since their logic is based on the immorality of slavery, pay for the upkeep of the Royal Navy that enforced the stoppage of slavery on the high seas, paying for the building and maintenance of the warships that made it feasible, and the training and wages of crews that did the enforcement, including compensation for work-related injuries and deaths. I'd wager the second lot of costs is many times that of the first.
    I've seen that kind of reasoning with modern Serbian tycoons. They bought huge companies for peanuts, sold off anything they could, fired 90% of the workforce and now claim we should all be thanking them since they employ 100,000 people.
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 10-11-2013 at 19:14.

  20. #20
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,853

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    UK held on to Hong Kong until a few decades ago. Did modern generations had something to do with that?

    You can't pull a "common sense" just where it suits you.
    We'd have been able to hold on to it a while longer if modern standards of self-determination had been applied. Modern Hong Kong is rather fonder of London than of Beijing.

  21. #21
    Nec Pluribus Impar Member SwordsMaster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    3,505
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Sow how far back do you draw the line? Suing the NL for the cost incurred to Spain with their disobedience? Suing the Mongols for wages lost when they beheaded iranian peasants? Suing the Visigoths for books lost when they looted France? Or Charles Martel for the arab horses he killed in Rousillon? I say get them all. Since we have proved time and again that money is just a number, we might as well put some zeroes behind it. I for one will buy government debt with El Cid's face on it. Or Frederic Barbarrossa's. Or Totanka's if it comes to that.

    Edit: Ah, shouldn't then the formerly-colonised countries pay back the cost of the buildings they inherited from their suzerains? I know Ireland has a bunch of buildings built by the British, should they claim the costs back? Should they claim the cost for building up Jamaica, or Hong Kong? Should Spain for Buenos Aires or Havana, or France for Casablanca or Pondicherry?
    Last edited by SwordsMaster; 10-11-2013 at 19:21.
    Managing perceptions goes hand in hand with managing expectations - Masamune

    Pie is merely the power of the state intruding into the private lives of the working class. - Beirut

    Member thankful for this post:



  22. #22
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,550

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    I dunno, it was pretty altruistic because it pissed off the French.
    I could give you a snappy reply but then I'd have to ask @Andres to ban me* since jokes about German crimes are generally viewed as disgusting unlike British crimes which are apparently really just misunderstood charity efforts. So you'll just have to do with giving us our World War reparations back which you never seem to have questioned in 60 years while every attempt to make Britain pay for anything is apparently just laughable and an affront to the British imperial spirit.




    *I'm sure he's just waiting for his chance...


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  23. #23
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    @Sarmation I think the people of Hong Kong had more to do with that than anything. There was a huge scare when they finally had to go back to China.
    People of Hong Kong were worried they would lose their special status. When they saw that the day after was just business as usual, they went about their business.

  24. #24
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,853

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    People of Hong Kong were worried they would lose their special status. When they saw that the day after was just business as usual, they went about their business.
    And yet, despite having seen the results, they still think more highly of London than of Beijing.

  25. #25
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,550

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster View Post
    Sow how far back do you draw the line? Suing the NL for the cost incurred to Spain with their disobedience? Suing the Mongols for wages lost when they beheaded iranian peasants? Suing the Visigoths for books lost when they looted France? Or Charles Martel for the arab horses he killed in Rousillon? I say get them all. Since we have proved time and again that money is just a number, we might as well put some zeroes behind it. I for one will buy government debt with El Cid's face on it. Or Frederic Barbarrossa's. Or Totanka's if it comes to that.

    Edit: Ah, shouldn't then the formerly-colonised countries pay back the cost of the buildings they inherited from their suzerains? I know Ireland has a bunch of buildings built by the British, should they claim the costs back? Should they claim the cost for building up Jamaica, or Hong Kong? Should Spain for Buenos Aires or Havana, or France for Casablanca or Pondicherry?
    Or Germany for London? Oh woops, we actually did pay for that over a period of 60+ years...

    Also if anything, Spain should pay the Netherlands for the occupation. The revolt was the beginning of the European spring and the Dutch just rid themselves of the Spanish dictators and created one of the first if not the first republic.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  26. #26
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    mayo
    Posts
    4,833

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwordsMaster View Post
    I know Ireland has a bunch of buildings built by the British, should they claim the costs back? Should they claim the cost for building up Jamaica, or Hong Kong? Should Spain for Buenos Aires or Havana, or France for Casablanca or Pondicherry?

    Technically any Irish buildings from before the union were paid with Irish money, it might have be stolen but you could argue we were repaid for them by taking them over on independence.

    Anything after Act of Union was actually paid for in the treaty and ordinary people were of course still paying rents to the british for various land reforms until the 30s.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 10-11-2013 at 20:32.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  27. #27
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Novi Sad, Serbia
    Posts
    4,306

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    And yet, despite having seen the results, they still think more highly of London than of Beijing.
    That's kind of like kidnapping a baby and getting caught three years later - telling the court the kid now likes you more than its parents isn't gonna work.

    And anyway, it's been a few decades. Let's ask them after it's been part of China for 150 years.

  28. #28
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    10,833

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Stupid though the claim is, I still wouldn't mind the claimants paying us for the cost of maintaining the Royal Navy for a century, scaled to 2013 levels.
    I thought the RN was being downsized into oblivion as an anachronism?
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  29. #29
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    10,833

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Actually, Greenpeace should lodge a climate-change lawsuit against Tanzania.

    Grounds: A lack of effective population management allowed an incredibly dangerous species to propagate beyond the Olduvai Gorge, eventually establishing itself on all seven continents and cranking up the greenhouse gasses through overpopulation and excessive terrain modification.

    THEN, the various "they invaded us" and "they enslaved us" lawsuits could be rolled into one class action and combined with the above so that we are truly bringing suit against the point of origin for the problem.


    Force them to pay damages or accept the return of the species at the center of the problem.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  30. #30

    Default Re: What does the UK, France and the Netherlands have in common?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian
    That's kind of like kidnapping a baby and getting caught three years later - telling the court the kid now likes you more than its parents isn't gonna work.

    And anyway, it's been a few decades. Let's ask them after it's been part of China for 150 years.
    How chauvinistic of you, the territories that experienced European colonization have the legal agency of underaged dependents?
    Vitiate Man.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO