One Strange Battle

**LordK9** · 10-16-2013, 21:43

As the HRE, I invaded some Papal held land with an army of several hundred peasants (don't ask), one archer, a Swiss halbdier, a halbdier, some feudal and chiv. men of war, and a civ. sergeant - plus five squadrons of royal knights. The Papal forces had mainly abelesters (sp) and archers but two halbdiers, a feudal sergeant, militia sergeants, and out numbered me two to one. Nothing new here but this was a single bridge battle. After wasting a peasant unit and about 10 archers, I decided this was insane so ordered my troops to withdraw - all but the cavalry who stood on a ridge as a rear guard. Sure enough, the Papal general sent his anti-horse troops after me. I had my commander walk off away from them and sent two other squadrons to the east and west respectively. One went after each of the dual squadrons while the rest ran towards my commander. Their missile troops were still trying to cross the bridge. I left them chase one unit while the other got behind them and charged from both sides. Rout and death. This repeated several times until all were routed. Then I charged the missile troops who promptly routed en masse. OK, now I'm on the other side of the bridge with my rear guard and several exhausted squadrons. The reserves came in - mostly spearmen and missile troops. They chased us all over the place (my cav just walked) while we picked off the odd isolated units. The exhaustion was now set in and my tactic of walking away and waiting no longer rested the squadrons, so my "rear guard" finally exited.

Total losses not counting the peasants and archers: 22
Total losses to the "winner": Over 1000.

Not exactly how I envisioned things happening. :)

**Brandy Blue** · 10-17-2013, 01:43

Persumably not the way his Holiness envisioned it either.

**drone** · 10-17-2013, 15:55

The important question: Did your general get a bad trait for "running"?

**LordK9** · 10-18-2013, 02:09

I don't believe he did but likely did get tagged with a loss. The only unit of mine that routed was the peasant one (I've never seen "good runner" or "doubtful courage" unless the leader's unit routed). The next year, I moved in again and the papal troops decided they couldn't win so he didn't even get the evening out victory.

This brings a few other things to mind, though. If I attack then decide to withdraw before the battle and do this a few times, my general gets a negative tag. But I see the AI doing this repeatedly, especially with beat up crusader armies. Do AI generals suffer these same negatives? Also, it was said in a prior discussion that if a leader dies, an excommunication goes away but my king died three years after the "x" and it carried over. Does this only happen with AI leaders?

**Brandy Blue** · 10-18-2013, 02:46

IIRC, an excomm should disappear when your leader dies. However, if you were at war with the papacy at the time, I suppose that could make a difference. Doesn't the papacy automatically excommunicate anyone who attacks it?

**LordK9** · 10-19-2013, 01:58

Yes, it does. When the Pope dies while I'm at war with them, though, I get a warning from the new Pope to stop aggression against the Pope :) giving me two years to withdraw. I've always had an excommunication message too. Maybe all of that does not happen, though, when a leader dies. For the longest time, I thought the only way to end an "X" was for the Pope to die so I guess I'll just have to pay closer attention to the next time I get excommunicated and am not at war with the papacy (although that is very rare for me).

**CountMRVHS** · 10-19-2013, 14:26

Hmm, but if it is the Pope who attacks you, I wonder if that makes a difference. As in, if you attack the Pope, you might only get warned, but if he attacks you, x-com(?)

**LordK9** · 10-20-2013, 01:24

It's ALWAYS the Pope attacking me :) Its when I end the siege (if the Pope loses the battle, there is no excommunication - only if he wins and you respond) that I get the warning. However, in this most recent case, I was at war with the papacy when my leader died and I didn't attack that year but noticed my leaders had broken crosses. I'm inclined to believe that if you are already at war with the Pope when your King (actually, Emperor in this case) dies that the excommunication carries over as someone before had thought possible.

**Gilrandir** · 10-20-2013, 14:20

Originally Posted by LordK9

I'm inclined to believe that if you are already at war with the Pope when your King (actually, Emperor in this case) dies that the excommunication carries over as someone before had thought possible.

In my experience, it is not only when you are at war with the Pope. Sometimes my excom is not lifted if my monarch dies no matter what faction I'm at war with. I believe it to be some kind of a bug, as the two laws of excom-lifting are a universal truth for the MTW community. This excom-inheriting happens now and then in my game, though not that often (I would say 10% of cases).

**LordK9** · 10-21-2013, 00:46

Now that seems to make more sense. Any way, I'll be paying closer attention. If this is true, it likely won't happen the next time. Might actually be a useful bug of sorts - this way one cannot count on it.