If the civil war hits while your great general is adopted into an enemy faction he will rebell along with his entire army.Originally Posted by nearchos
Re: Myth's solution to internal politics, civil war and characters
If the civil war hits while your great general is adopted into an enemy faction he will rebell along with his entire army.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
(4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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Re: Myth's solution to internal politics, civil war and characters
Only if its army is at the starting rebel province i asume because, in all the campaigns i tried until now,no army defected to the rebels, no matter what the noble support % was amd no matter how many generals belonged to the nobles fuction or what their Gravitas was.
So what do i have to conclude about the Int. Politics usage?
But nevertheless, even though you have a point, i still dont think its enough for me to accept that the whole mechanism has a logic as i dont think that is the canon, perchaps it happens once here and there, defecting generals?
Re: Myth's solution to internal politics, civil war and characters
My two cents:
I actually started paying attention to the political side of the game in my latest campaign (as Egypt). Things do seem to work when one really pays attention and takes meticulous notes about the per-turn gravity changes across ALL generals/politicians (for all parties). Just wish they made this whole thing more transparent and explained (in their encyclopedia for one). So, if anything: I'd love much improved interface for the political system:
1. I want to be able to see whose gravity went up, whose went down and by how much;
2. Also, I want to be able to see by how much the whole party's gravity changed (for all parties);
3. Also, I would like to to be able to see the gravity and ambition of generals (very important for the political system) right on their portrait and in the political interface scroll screen;
4. Age should be visible right there too;
5. It would be really nice to see age, gravity and ambition for the candidates before they get hired;
6. One of the highest levels of promotion (promising +2% to party's influence per turn) does not seem to work; I guess, a fix is in order;
Back to the OP: I saw your note about a pop-up for promotions being available. Be careful with this. It is not always optimal to promote. If playing as a monarchy, your primary goal (for stability) is to keep influence as high as possible (70% and higher seems to be the safe area in terms of civil war triggers). Promoting anyone with ambition less than 3 might result in a net influence drop for you. Better save up that influence and adopt that 3 ambition general from the opposition...
I can only speak for monarchies since I have not played with republics for any significant length. But, with monarchies, unless you get really unlucky (bad series of events, natural deaths and assassinations of of generals and politicians): you can avert the civil war until you reach the highest imperium (15 armies allowance). You have to keep your party's influence above 70%; higher if possible.
Politically, you have to think about each battle, each promotion, each hiring. If you hire from your own party, you're likely to lose influence (unless you get a really lucky roll on the starting stats of the candidate). If you hire from the opposition: you do not lose influence outright (there seems to be an exception: the time when you have to replace a general who died; seems to be no or very minimal hit for hiring from your own party then). But... once you hire the opposition dude, you can see his stats (gravity, ambition, traits that improve or damage gravity) and can decide whether it does you any good to adopt him. Adoptions should be done early and the goal here is to snatch up ambition 3 candidates before they get powerful enough to become leaders of the opposition party.
Then there is the bit of statesmen earning gravity every turn while sitting in the office. Basically, you want all the opposition members leading armies (preferable there is no one from the opposition sitting in the office at any time) that are not in combat (winning battles gains you gravity; sitting in the capital earns gravity; leading idle armies earns nothing unless the general has a trait that increases gravity per turn). Sinister mothers in law are your best friends, by the way. Attach them to the leaders of the opposition so they lose gravity each turn... Remove this precious asset once the target gets in his 50's [you'd lose the mother in law if the general died]. On the opposite side of the token, you want to have a sufficient number of your party's generals/statesmen to be able to rotate your own high ambition generals back and forth between direct action (battles) and the office.
In the end, it seems party's influence is slowly tilting towards the party who is gaining more gravity per turn. Direct deaths do not seem to affect this (you can lose a 150 gravity politician to old age related death and your influence might not budge). Adoptions do.
Last edited by Slaists; 11-04-2013 at 15:26.
Re: Myth's solution to internal politics, civil war and characters
This is very good analysis Slaists, i will keep it as a guide as well as the one by Myth, which im trying to follow.
Now, lets assume that a player who has understand completely the mechanism, performs all the actions needed by paying attention and taking his time with the compicated internal policy system and is sucesfull in keeping its party's influence very high.
What is the acctual result of this, i mean i.e. when you are making desisions about the research and bilding, the result is according with them, your desicions about how or where you will expand has its results later in the game.
If i may put it in a different way, what is the ''reward'' for a player to succesfuly handle the internal politics aspect of the game, because at the moment i dont see the connection between internal politics and CW, since its inevitable, only the timing changes, in which imperium it will begin.
And the result of the int. politics is only the CW, since after that its locked.
And for not beeing misundersood, i like involving in CW, i like all the intrigue and the desision making for Int. Politics it is for me a very good adition to TW series, ( as an idea ), but i m not yet seeing the ''road'' ahead, if you are in front of a crossroads and deside which way to go you reach a destination different than the other three ways.
Anyway, i think it needs total refix, and Myth starting this thread has make some very good suggestions.
Also the outbreak of CW should be more personalised, around characters as well as pop up rebel armies, Some of your generals rebel, according to your party influence their ambition etc, (thats the meaning for paying close attention to internal politics), with their troops and in provinces with low PO aditional rebel or slave forces also rising, the way CW was in the first MTW, where all your empire was affected.
Last edited by nearchos; 11-05-2013 at 08:36.
Re: Myth's solution to internal politics, civil war and characters
Conceptually, ability to affect CW timing is the reward of successful politics. You cannot prevent the war, but you can ensure that it occurs under conditions favorable to you. Use politics to delay CW and make preparations (finish off existing wars, move armies closer to capital so they can respond in any direction, etc). Then flip in the other direction and use politics to instigate the war when your military is ready and well-positioned for it. In roleplaying terms, everyone in the ruling/aristocratic classes knows that a war has to come someday...politics is all about outmaneuvering the opposition and setting oneself up for victory.what is the ''reward'' for a player to succesfuly handle the internal politics aspect of the game, because at the moment i dont see the connection between internal politics and CW, since its inevitable, only the timing changes, in which imperium it will begin.
In practice, however, the real problem with politics isn't that CW is inevitable anyway, but rather that the CW itself just isn't that big a deal. The player is going to beat the CW faction whether his armies are well-positioned for it or not. Might take a few more turns, might lose an extra settlement or two while armies are marching homewards from the frontier, but the player is not going to lose. Therefore, the importance of politics is greatly diminished....because it doesn't matter much when the CW occurs.
Civil War needs to be a bigger threat...and if poorly timed, there should be a real possibility that the player can lose the campaign. If this was the case, then even with CW inevitability, politics would be intensely interesting.
All that said, I too would like to see politics continue after CW, if for no other reason than I'd like to continue with political promotions for my characters; some of the buffs are pretty good. Plus in the pre-CW game period, there's usually other things which are much better use of the treasury, and I rarely promote generals even when I'd like to. But in late game there's more money coming in than I know what to do with...using it for promotions would be a nice way to use it.
Re: Myth's solution to internal politics, civil war and characters
And if you are competent enough and cuning, outmaeuvre the oposition and take him out with various ways, without a single drop of blood....can you do that in R2, where the internal politics is a big part of the game?In roleplaying terms, everyone in the ruling/aristocratic classes knows that a war has to come someday...politics is all about outmaneuvering the opposition and setting oneself up for victory.
Yes and also its fullish i think the possitioning of the total rebel force in one settlementand i hope CA doesnt just solve the problem by make them imune to food shortages, xaxa!!In practice, however, the real problem with politics isn't that CW is inevitable anyway, but rather that the CW itself just isn't that big a deal.
If this can be fixed then the same could applied for the campaign/battle AI in general, eventhough the AI is greately improved after patch 5 at least in legendary.Civil War needs to be a bigger threat...and if poorly timed, there should be a real possibility that the player can lose the campaign. If this was the case, then even with CW inevitability, politics would be intensely interesting.
But i think that the only TW game where the AI could truly beat the human player in the single player was STW, so im not expecting this kind of improvement.
If thats the case, then we dont need a whole internal policy asspect, there could be just a political promotion choice in the traits and houshold menu.All that said, I too would like to see politics continue after CW, if for no other reason than I'd like to continue with political promotions for my characters;
Anyway, perchaps im getting old and looks like im complaining no mater what, dont misunderstand me, im geting in love with R2, after p5 and i believe it will get better and better with future patches and DLCs.
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