Difficulty of the HRE

**LordK9** · 10-20-2013, 01:35

I've been playing most recently as the HRE. This is with "Gold", hard setting, and in the late period (I think, keep getting this confused - the middle one). Its listed as moderate difficulty but, so far, has been more difficult then any of those listed as hard in the early period. The lateness of being able to build fleets and an economy (even though I am the "richest" most of the time) not up to the number of troops needed to guard such a central position seems to be at fault. I'm think I'm on my fifth try now. I was perhaps going to win in the last try but, alas, even though all of my garrison and army leaders had at least five loyalty, the what should have been a very temporary loss of two territories put me in to civil war and that was that. So, I am wondering, do others also feel that "moderate difficulty" is a bit off or is perhaps my style of play just not a good match for the empire?

**ferdi** · 10-20-2013, 13:51

Originally Posted by LordK9

I've been playing most recently as the HRE. This is with "Gold", hard setting, and in the late period (I think, keep getting this confused - the middle one). Its listed as moderate difficulty but, so far, has been more difficult then any of those listed as hard in the early period. The lateness of being able to build fleets and an economy (even though I am the "richest" most of the time) not up to the number of troops needed to guard such a central position seems to be at fault. I'm think I'm on my fifth try now. I was perhaps going to win in the last try but, alas, even though all of my garrison and army leaders had at least five loyalty, the what should have been a very temporary loss of two territories put me in to civil war and that was that. So, I am wondering, do others also feel that "moderate difficulty" is a bit off or is perhaps my style of play just not a good match for the empire?

HRE is always harder then it seems. this is because of it is position. and so through the its history it is not unified up to 1871 so the loyaly is realy real (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco%...93Prussian_War). u have to be more and more careful in HRE, it is not like Ottoman, English or Spain.
Hre is hard because to expand u need to war with another kingdoms, and this all kingdomas are Catholic :) .Ususally when one attck probably next year others are do the same.
first position of your king is important. if your naval force is insufficient king must be in a central place so he can reach all territories in one or two move.
second your main army's position on the map is essential and loyaly of this garrison.
then u first pay attention on France. France is almost always attack u.
so your first army be in france border(Lorrain), second one is in Austria,
it has border with Venice and Hungry.
then third army in Pomerenia.
Pomerinia is your most valuable land. u start with port here and construct ships. so put a ship in queue on it is possible(i dont exactly rememember if it is avaible in start).
then Saxonia is valuable with its salt. so control Baltic and north see. it is at least.
if u do these things and be careul about excomminicaion after 20-30 years u could easily erase your rivals.
so first interior(dont lost any province and tech up) things then exterior ones(expanding).

**CountMRVHS** · 10-20-2013, 18:22

Yeah, I believe the HRE gave me the most challenge out of all the vanilla factions - you're not alone in that assessment!

As for your style of play, I'm not sure if that would have an impact - but then again, I don't know your style of play. Are you playing for conquest or GA? Do you rush or turtle?

I prefer a slow, turtling GA game. I find a lot of the time, even on Expert, the AI is very slow to declare war on me if I'm just keeping to my own homelands. But of course as the HRE, you have one of the largest kingdoms right off the bat, so you're a target for all of your neighbors. Just sitting put and teching up is going to be harder as a result.

The middle era is 'High', btw; 'Late' refers to the final era. I've never tried the HRE on anything other than Early, so I can't speak to any strategies for that era.

Keep at it, and good luck! It'd be sweet if you posted your progress here, too. :)

**LordK9** · 10-21-2013, 00:40

I "turtle", generally and play for "great achievements".

So far so good - I've finally got an economy that has enough excess each year for substantial builds but I had to reduce to just two understrength armies plus garrisons. The Hungarians attacked me and I've been handling it but, just like the French, the Pope stepped in and with the low loyalty, I really don't want an excommunication. All I managed to take was Milan and maybe Hungary itself (I'm assaulting the castle) but if the Hungarians attack me, even if I win I lose as the assault will be cancelled and my two years up. When Hungary attacked, I lost all the surrounding kingdoms as allies except the Papacy and an alliance with them is worth about as much as a few grains of sand. An attack now by Poland would likely finish me or even by the Italians (from Toulouse). We shall see.

**CountMRVHS** · 10-21-2013, 02:37

Sounds like an interesting game! My favorite moments in MTW are those times like you're describing - when your kingdom's fate hinges on the outcome of just a few battles or the quirks of diplomacy.

I guess that, since the Pope has warned you off the Hungarians, you could theoretically try to smack the Italians or French now, if you don't want to wait for the hammer to fall...

**LordK9** · 10-21-2013, 22:25

The Hungarians didn't attack me in Hungary so I was able to keep it - because - the loss of Hungary caused a civil war. It was minor but they agreed to a cease fire and asked for an alliance. I didn't mention it but I was warned by the Pope about France before which is now over - and the war has been on but dormant for ten years. However, while I was waiting for a few more units to make it west, the Poles attacked and took Brandenburg. I took Poland (fair trade, right? :) ) and after a few futile attacks to get it back, the Poles are spent. I just retook Brandenburg and Pomerania and Prussia (from rebels - the peasants revolted). Now Poland is just two provinces and not likely to be much of a problem. I guess another 10 years have past because the Pope just warned me about Poland. France it is. Looks like a race with my now allies the Italians as France is down to three provinces in Europe and quite weak. I'd have thought that the English would have finished them off by now but, well, they seem to be having a problem conquering Scotland and have lost all of their continental holdings. The Almohads and Egyptians are the real problems now. The Alms have all of Spain and N.Africa up to Egypt and Egypt has all Asia minor and nearly surrounds the Black Sea plus much of modern Russia. They are at war with Hungary at the moment who seems to be making some headway.

This has come up in prior threads but the funny thing is, all these warnings from the Pope and I wasn't the aggressor even once.

**drone** · 10-21-2013, 22:57

Originally Posted by LordK9

This has come up in prior threads but the funny thing is, all these warnings from the Pope and I wasn't the aggressor even once.

You are the biggest, you obviously must be at fault!

**LordK9** · 10-23-2013, 02:16

An AI can't think so that is probably the best way to have gone. The constant warning cycle (France, Hungary, Poland, France) is now broken, though. I left the French rump as a buffer between me and the Alms and to keep the Italians honest. The French are now allied with me, the Poles are gone, and I am at war with the Golden Horde.

**ferdi** · 10-23-2013, 18:19

Originally Posted by LordK9

An AI can't think so that is probably the best way to have gone. The constant warning cycle (France, Hungary, Poland, France) is now broken, though. I left the French rump as a buffer between me and the Alms and to keep the Italians honest. The French are now allied with me, the Poles are gone, and I am at war with the Golden Horde.

could u share images of your game?
İ guess we all miss