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  1. #1
    Strategist and Storyteller Senior Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Oh...so I'm first, eh? *gulp*....you guys should be aware I've never played as high as VH....gotta be a first time I guess.

    No worries, looking forward to it. Just hope the game doesn't end right here.

    Will get rolling on this tonight. Watching college football (Tx Tech vs OU) right now.
    You'll do just fine
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

    Sounds like this will....... succeed!

  3. #3
    Member Member Kamakazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

    im excited for this. ive never played Athens before..... also it will be interesting to see how others run their empire
    If living is nothing dieing is nothing then nothing is everything and everything is nothing


  4. #4

    Default Re: Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

    Um....apparently I need to buy Winzip for $29.95 to do this then?

    Edit: Never mind, apparently there's an "Evaluation Version". Just hope there's not a time limit on it...
    Last edited by Bramborough; 10-27-2013 at 07:18.

  5. #5
    Member Member Sp4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Um....apparently I need to buy Winzip for $29.95 to do this then?

    Edit: Never mind, apparently there's an "Evaluation Version". Just hope there's not a time limit on it...
    There is but it never stopped working for me.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

    Term 1 Complete

    First I'll get the savegame link up...

    @easytarget

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local....php?catid=279

    Filename is AthensSHW Term 2 (should be at the top of the list)

    And now the AAR...

    Athenian Sunrise: Magistracy of Demochares, 276-237 B.C. (39 turns)


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Start

    Probably common knowledge among most folks, but since Athens is a lesser-played faction, a few highlights about the start situation:

    One settlement: Athenai (provincial capital in Hellas)
    Troops: Two small armies in Hellas, total of 10 units combined (including bodyguards). 2x cavalry (the bodyguards), 5x hoplites, 3x slinger/javelin
    Navy: One very small navy near Hellas. 3x ships
    Diplomatic situation: Athens is a client state of Macedon, who is basically neutral. Sparta is very friendly (and also trading). Epirus is quite hostile. As I recall, other nearby factions are either slightly friendly or neutral.
    Politics: Player's faction is the Magistrates. Opposing faction is the Oligarchs. Magistrates start with something like 25 or 30% influence.




    Basic Strategy

    So...I want Democharos to leave at least a full province to his successor. Two obvious options:

    Hellas: Requires going to war with Sparta. Pro: unifies Athenai's own province, probably improves Macedon to Friendly, only 2 minor settlements to capture. Con: Already have a very hostile neighbor in Epirus...this option adds Sparta as an enemy, not sure starting Athens units can beat starting Sparta units, Sparta is the only Very Friendly state - don't want to throw that away.

    Macedonia: Requires war with Epirus and eventually Macedon. Pro: Epirus already hostile anyway, will break Athens' client status when Macedon war starts, further cements Sparta relationship (they start at war with Epirus). Con: Athenai remains single Athenian settlement in Hellas, will take longer (3 cities vice 2), potential for Macedon/Epirus wars at same time, and finally...Epirus starts with elephants (gulp).

    I choose Macedonia.


    How It Went

    I combine the two armies into one; the Brothers of Xenophon, then recruit some more hoplites and cheaper spear units. I want a full-size army to go after Epirus. Also add a few ships to the fleet. Spy goes to look at Larissa...a small army (maybe 5 units) plus garrison. I send the Brothers up there to encircle and capture the place..they're slightly smaller than the combined army+garrison, but have more hoplite units, so I'm comfortable on troop quality. Larissa surrenders without a battle..so far so good.

    Sparta and Macedon go to war...so I have to choose since I'm a Macedon client. Pretty easy decision given I had already decided to conquer Macedonia. I decline to enter the war, thereby breaking client status (but don't actually enter into hostilities). So now Sparta is even more friendly, while Macedon is now angry (but they don't declare on me). All of this is just fine.

    Spy pokes around up at Apollonia...wow, Epirus is building a big army there (including their starting elephant unit). It's clear I will not be able to attack with numerical superiority...so I bring the fleet around, prepositioning to help. My plan is to encircle/blockade Apollonia at same time, hopefully the Epirus army will not sally. When the Brothers are at 19 units, I head over there (don't want to wait another turn for just one unit). Epirus hands me a gift...their big army (Champions of Nike) goes wandering around the Adriatic for no discernible reason. So I hit Apollonia with army and fleet to take it down before the Champions get back.

    The assault goes pretty well. My missiles whittle down the garrison for a while, then hoplites go in to finish them off. A Spartan army supports, but they don't really get involved. The only hitch is that for some reason, I unchecked "Control Large Army"...I honestly don't know why. So my fleet keeps sending ONE ship at a time onto the map...and sometimes I forget to go tell the guy to withdraw, and he gets killed by the 3 Epirus garrison ships. About 80% of my casualties come from this. So I gooned that up. In any case, Apollonia is captured.


    Athenian hoplite column marching towards Apollonia


    Missile troops open the battle


    Hoplites engage


    Brothers of Xenophon triumphant: Hoplites celebrate the capture of Apollonia

    It turns out that Epirus had just captured Brundisium across the water. They have only one very small fleet there, and no garrison built up yet (must've been the immediately preceding turn). My fleet still has full movement points, so I send 'em over. I hadn't planned to do this, but the opportunity looks too good to pass up. It's an easy capture, and now I have a second walled capital. Also brings me in contact with Rome, who seem to be doing okay in Italia. They're decently friendly; we establish trade. Rome is also buddies with Syracuse; I trade with them too. At some point right around this time, Sparta offers a military alliance; I accept.

    The Epirus army comes meandering back down the Adriatic, just within range of both Brundisium and Apollonia. I send both fleet and army after them, reinforcing each other. The enemy army is pretty easily destroyed at sea. Happy to get rid of those elephants. Epirus now has only one lone general with an attrition-dwindling bodyguard. He can't hurt anything, so I'm content to just let him drift around til he attrites away entirely. Except the guy decides to start raiding in Larissa, screwing over my Macedonia public order. So Demochares (who doesn't have an army yet) hires a merc and goes to kill him. Epirus destroyed. War over. Merc disbanded before his ridiculous upkeep trashes my economy.


    "Annoying Raid Guy"

    A few words about initial economy/research/construction. I start with a few military techs, to get to the 2nd-level barracks (and workshop/champs)...I haven't played Athens, so not quite sure what they can recruit with these. Turns out the hoplite barracks gives citizen cav and pikemen, while perioriki (sp?) provides archers and peltasts. The pikemen don't look useful at all. I decide to go with the perioriki first (but wind up capturing one before I get around to building it). I eventually want all my ports to be commercial, but Athenai and Brundisium are lone capitals with no support, so I keep fishing ports there for now as their sole source of food. Apollonia/Larissa, while minor, are both resource towns, so I build them to level 2, and go with Temples of Poseidon for the double PO/food buff (I've learned from playing Pontus that the ToP is pretty awesome; all benefit, no cost even at Lvl 4). And then a wheat farm for 3rd slot. ToP/farm is pretty much my "standard" minor Hellenic settlement build. Apollonia's port goes commercial. After the initial military techs, I switch to civil, trying to start getting a bit more money coming in, plus I want a dignitary. This all takes a while, of course, since money is tight.

    So with Epirus gone, now time to go after Macedon. They're very hostile to me, but haven't declared war yet...they're busy fighting Tylis instead (to whom Macedon has lost Pulpudeva). Pella is their only remaining city. I start recruiting troops into second army (led by FL Demochares) for the siege. This army (the Heracleidae) is about half-size when my buddy Sparta starts sailing a full army up toward Pella...I don't want them to beat me there. So my 1 1/2 armies march to besiege Pella. Macedon has had a large army there, but like Epirus, they sent it off into the Fog (presumably against Tylis), and I don't have to deal with it. With only a garrison left, my two armies easily assault and capture Pella (no screenies...I AR'd it. Sue me.). Macedonia is unified, I proclaim Bread & Games edict in the province. One small Macedonian fleet remains, but they suicide against Athenai's garrison. Never did see what happened to their big army, I guess Tylis destroyed it. Anyhoo, Macedon is gone.

    But...Macedon had allies, who'd also joined in war against me. Ardiaei, Bithynia, and Triballi. Bithynia is no problem, I immediately get them to make peace. The Triballi (also at war with Tylis) won't make peace, but never bother me either. The Ardiaei, however, are different...they march a full 20-unit army across the mountain pass toward Pella. Spy takes a look; some hoplites, but also a bunch of lower-quality melee and spear infantry, many of them with pretty low morale values. 6 slinger units. I feel relatively comfortable against them, and move the Brothers of Xenophon in position to attack next turn.

    They decide to attack me instead, and the Heracleidae (inside Pella) are apparently just outside reinforcement range. The Brothers have overall higher-quality troops, I feel okay about it. The balance-of-power meter shows me at a significant disadvantage, maybe 30-35%. I figure it's just out of whack or not accounting for morale values, not too worried. I decide to corner-camp with my hoplites in phalanx. Slingers behind where the Ardiaei can't get to them. I think the Brothers will take some significant casualties, but confident they'll win....

    These dudes kick my butt in a bloodbath. It sours early when my general Isidoros is killed by some lucky missile fire, before the melee even starts. So my army takes a morale hit...and it starts snowballing. The hoplites (plus 4 militia hoplites) hold well and fight for a long time. But the dang slingers rout...even though they're not flanked or directly threatened. So I lose my missile fire. Then the militia hoplites crack. The main line keeps fighting, but now with general and slingers gone, it's not going well. And these Ardiaei troops just aren't breaking, whatever the unit cards might say about their lousy morale. Finally my guys just get frittered away, and finally break. It's very close, I think they win a "Costly Victory". Both armies kill about an equal (high) number...but they started with more in the first place. I'm reasonably sure that if my general had lived it may very well have gone my way.


    My corner-camp position...I thought this was going to work...


    The melee vs Ardiaei. This is pretty close to the end. General long dead, and militia/slingers have headed for the hills already.

    In any case, the Ardiaei may have "won"...but so beat up that they're pretty easy prey for the Heracleidae to clean up next turn. Meanwhile a shell of the Brothers lives on, they weren't destroyed entirely. And the Ardiaei have lost their main army. So, tactically embarassing, but not a strategic disaster.

    Demochares is just past 60 now, and I kinda want to clean things up in prep for his successor. Now that they've lost a big army, the Ardiaei are willing to make peace...and then the Triballi go along. So no current wars, although obviously these guys remain hostile. I start rebuilding the Brothers of Xenophon, so that there will be two decent-sized armies when Demochares kicks. I also shift some buildings around. For example, I convert Athenai's Sacred Grove to Poseidon, in order to get just enough food where I can convert fishing port to commercial use. A few other changes. Demochares gets to about 68 or 69 yrs old, and then dies of natural causes.


    End State

    237 B.C - 39 turns
    Treasury: 2744
    Income: 2383
    Food Surplus: 27
    New Magistrate Faction Leader: Straton
    Magistrate Influence: roughly 40-45% range

    Forces:


    Stationed at Pella
    Commanded by Demodocos. 17yrs old. Magistrate faction (same as player).



    Stationed at Apollonia
    Commanded by Straton (new Faction Leader). 31 yrs old. Magistrate faction (obviously).



    Stationed at Brundisium
    Commanded by Erectheus. 52 yrs old. Oligarch faction
    .

    Provinces/Settlements:






    Final Comments

    I find myself almost regretting the capture of Brundisium. I had no intention of war with Rome any time soon, which meant I was not going to spread out in Magna Graecia. So Brundisium had no support from minors, and Latin culture remained dominant, trashing public order. Took forever to get order back up past zero...and it's still pretty low now. Even the Sacred Grove isn't helping that much. All of this led to the fleet getting stuck there for public order reasons...it's been welded to the pier in Brundisium's harbor for the last 20 turns. So I couldn't use the fleet...nor did I feel I could afford to reduce its size. So it's been sucking upkeep money. This seemed the "least evil" option, compared to moving one of the armies there or building a new army. I wish now that I'd simply not captured it, or just abandoned it to rebellion. I think Athens' economy might be in better shape right now...I didn't really have a use for the fleet against Macedon or Ardiaei, but I could've sent it looking around the western Med for more factions to trade with.

    This was my first time playing VH. The lack of tactical map, restricted battle cam movement, etc took some getting used to. Also put a crimp in getting more screenies, since pausing puts a big fat window in the middle of the screen. Apollonia was the only battle I felt comfortable enough to snap some screenies "on the fly"...(plus, I may or may not have AR'd some of the others). I also noticed that enemy agent activity was pretty heavy for so early in the campaign. Epirus' spy was a total pain in the butt around Larissa.

    I was struck by just how much longer melee combat was taking during these battles, even the relatively easy Apollonia fight. In my previous campaigns as Rome and Pontus, I've never seen enemy infantry last this long, even lower-quality units. I don't know if that's because Athenian hoplites just don't kill very fast (i.e., slower than Pontic ones), or if it's because I was playing on VH. I remember seeing a summary somewhere of what changes with difficulty level; I don't recall seeing "AI morale buff" listed.

    Minor error: When I recruited first dignitary, I put her on Civil Admin at Athenai, because at the time it was my highest-income province. Later when I had all of Macedonia, I forgot to move her. She's in the wrong place.

    Last edited by Bramborough; 10-27-2013 at 17:07.

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  7. #7
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Athens: Summer. Harvest. War (R2TW succession game)

    Well that went fast.
    On the Path to the Streets of Gold: a Suebi AAR
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