Military reforms?

[The Stranger]

well thats what i mean, imo its a misconception/misplay that KH have a hard start. You need to blitz obviously, but with some good use of your army you can win so much ground early on. You start with quite alot of FM and theyre pretty epic infantry, the spartan family members, but even the regular ones, kick some serious *** if you use them right. For example, you can conquer crete (on VH/M) by just using your 2 cretan archers and your 3 family members (you ship 2 over from the mainland). aka you shouldnt lose a man that will not get automatically replaced.

And their economy is pretty strong as well, you shouldnt even go into debth :/

[Ca Putt]

yeah they are pretty kickass.

taking crete is not that big a Problem, the macedonian army wandering around Attica does resemble a damocles sword tho and imho is what might be considered "Hard". With combined Greek Forces and some Basic knowledge of hoplite vs Phalangite warfare they can be quickly disposed however and give a nice "founding myth" for your new "empire". But Newcomers do get intimidated by them.

Once you learned how to use Haploi and Sphendonetai effectively the KH campaign is much easier.

[The Stranger]

yea, especially the slingers are critical, but the haploi are pretty darn good for their cost etc. and ofcourse use those FM, dont just let them wither away in a city early on. The best early on are imo the FM of the nomad factions, but the KH might take a close 2nd place due to the warfarce culture of the area. The heavy cavalry FM of other factions can be a winning force in battles as well with some charge and withdraw micro, but imo are less useful in a less developed army. without the anvil to tie the enemy down, the hammer doesnt do too well :/

i actually like to get an IV government in some places that have the gallic general and the steppe general. combine these into and army, add some of your own heavy cav FM and you have an autoregenerating stack of doom for medium cost. its absolutely awesome. 6 vollorix, 6 horse archer generals, and 2 HC family members and a trained spy. just see the cities fall :P

[kdrakak]

yea, especially the slingers are critical, but the haploi are pretty darn good for their cost etc. and ofcourse use those FM, dont just let them wither away in a city early on. The best early on are imo the FM of the nomad factions, but the KH might take a close 2nd place due to the warfarce culture of the area. The heavy cavalry FM of other factions can be a winning force in battles as well with some charge and withdraw micro, but imo are less useful in a less developed army. without the anvil to tie the enemy down, the hammer doesnt do too well :/

i actually like to get an IV government in some places that have the gallic general and the steppe general. combine these into and army, add some of your own heavy cav FM and you have an autoregenerating stack of doom for medium cost. its absolutely awesome. 6 vollorix, 6 horse archer generals, and 2 HC family members and a trained spy. just see the cities fall :P

That sounds like a very powerful combo... if not very realistic...

[Ca Putt]

well the Fms are awesome, and unlike mounted non-nomad FMs you can have a large amout of them in one stack without the army getting silly and ineffective. th great disadvantage of the KH(in terms of FMs) however is that they don't have any lancers until you either hire some Illyrians or upgrade Athens*' MIC. Most other factions get Lancers early on due to their Bodyguard being a lancer. Exceptions here are sweboz not sure about saba and Lusotani, aka how lancy their cavalry is.
And Lancers are of premium importance when dealing with superior Infantry formations. With some good slinger use it's not that big of an issue but It does throw soem people off. also Having a foot FM means you won'T be able to kill most of the routers. :(

The heavy cavalry FM of other factions can be a winning force in battles as well with some charge and withdraw micro, but imo are less useful in a less developed army.

you're right there, If you don't have anything to hold the enemy in place it's not so easy to strike at them. However apart from the nomads you usually have a unit or two of phalangitai or other heavy infantry in your army to pin down them buggers.

PS: ehm, what was the topic anyway?^^

*or a more nothern city when you blitz a lot

[The Stranger]

saba have an infantry FM iirc, but i never really played the faction :/ lusotanas FM are not for me, theyre like javelin cav, but i just find them weak and ineffective. i replaced them with the dosidataskeli in my games :P those units kick ***. idc if ahistorical or not, they just have to be in it :P

killing routers is best done by light cavalry, which you do have easy access too, i agree that not having cavalry FM is a bit of a problem for the midgame as KH but the mercenary pool is so good in greece and surrounding areas that its barely a problem once the money starts pouring in.

[athanaric]

saba have an infantry FM iirc, but i never really played the faction

They do, its effectiveness is somewhat limited by not having a standard bearer though, meaning your general is more exposed to enemy attacks.
All three factions with infantry BGs have an advantage storming town centres early on (if you take Kydonia on turn 1 with KH, expect your faction leader's unit to be able to kill about half of the enemy army). Likewise with the Suebi and Saba FMs, who make mincemeat of the local light infantry garrisons. KH and Suebi BGs are also very effective at killing cavalry.

More on topic though, the March of Time reforms are quite beneficial for KH and Makedonia IMO, so I don't see any reason for preventing them.

[The Stranger]

That sounds like a very powerful combo... if not very realistic...

a more realistic army then, 8 levy phalanx, 5 slingers or long range archers (so not the hellenic ones :/), 4 thureophoroi, 2 FM for heavy cavalry, 1 light cavalry to chase routers.

average cost per unit is about 300 per turn, but this army will destroy pretty much anything the AI can throw at you and has a wide AoR.