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Thread: Archived: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

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    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Archived: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    After carefully checking surrounding area and available units I decided to start slowly and build my economy. 1st two turns was great - 2x 1000fl gifts from pope. I'm certainly the chosen one. Then, I was gathering money, building farms and castles, arranging marriages for my heirs. Generally, 30 years of peace and prosperity. All other countries seemed to do the same (with a small exception of Portuguese and Almohads which really don't like each other).

    After 30 years fleets of multiple countries started to grow rapidly. Now, 42 years after start of the campaign, Danes, Aragonese, Italians, Byzantines and Egyptians have their ships all around the known world. So, I decided to break my isolation and get access to the seas too. Frisia and Saxony were the first. The next will be Pomerania and Flanders. Both still independent. Flanders has very nice infrastructure but big castle and strong garrison too. I'd like to get the province as intact as possible so I'll probably send my emissary to show them that their duty under the imperial standard can be much more lucrative with plenty of prospects and opportunities.

    Unfortunately, during last 20 years 2 of my emperors died so there are no legal heirs now. The new 22 year-old emperor is one of the youngest ruler I've ever seen. He is married with a very nice hot-blooded Spanish princess so I hope heirs will come soon. Long live the Emperor!

    btw rebel fleets are non-existent and rebel armies are generally very passive. Some provinces has many troops but not use them at all. IMHO those big rebel garrisons stops main factions from going anywhere cause they need to keep their own garrisons (they don't even attack "free" provinces with no garrison at all.) It leads to stagnation. Obviously, it's my 1st game with 1004 so these are just my first impressions.
    Last edited by Axalon; 05-08-2017 at 03:56.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  2. #2

    Default Re: HRE campaign (Hard) v1004

    Staz, I changed the thread-title temporarily, for increased clarity and instant identification on the main index on what this thread is about. If you prefer something else, please change it accordingly, but you should include "Redux" somehow due to index-reasons outlined. It’s about keeping information clear and easy to find (even from the main index). If there are any problems with all this, send me a PM and we’ll sort it out. – Axalon

    ***


    I can only welcome and support this initiative. I’ll be happy to read up about your HRE-adventure/experience here with great interest, and probably others with me. The more details provided the better. Might I suggest that you try to throw in some strat-map overview pic now and then (on your empire in general or your borders etc. etc.). It usually illustrates things for the reader, and it usually makes things more exiting as well – some “pics for the kids” is thus recommended. Just a suggestion for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    btw rebel fleets are non-existent and rebel armies are generally very passive. Some provinces has many troops but not use them at all. IMHO those big rebel garrisons stops main factions from going anywhere cause they need to keep their own garrisons (they don't even attack "free" provinces with no garrison at all.) It leads to stagnation. Obviously, it's my 1st game with 1004 so these are just my first impressions.
    Please keep me (and others) informed on what happens with the rebels and what they do - but wait with any analysis until you’re done with the campaign at least. Let’s have some data before we analyse this and other stuff, alright? If it turns out to be indeed such traits and problems with 1004 in general – this across factions and across multiple campaigns, then obviously something will have to be done about it. As that is not what Redux should be like. However, until that point, we still don’t know if that is the case or not. Speculation is fun, especially if is well founded and convincing, but it is too early for that here as there is hardly any data/info available at this stage. Your stuff here will help to change that circumstance, so keep it up. For now, just keep track on and report what happens with the rebels and leave it at that. We’ll put on the lab-coats later…

    ...Anyways, take it away Kaiser Staz... “So, what happened next?” the lurker wondered…

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 11-04-2013 at 01:25. Reason: moderation stuff...

  3. #3
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE campaign (Hard) v1004

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Staz, I changed the thread-title temporarily...

    No problem. In fact, at first, it was very much like your version now but I thought there is no point to put "Redux" in title when the whole forum section is only about redux. Apparently, I was wrong.

    I'm not so good in writing stories so it'll go in default mode .

    Some time has passed and now situation looks like this:
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    I've taken Flanders and Pomerania as planned. After I built my fleet and sent my ships all over the world Flanders became truly a gold mine. It brings nearly the same amount of florins that all my other provinces together. What happened in the world in meantime? Generally, nothing. There was not a single war between main factions except Portuguese-Almohads conflict at the start of the campaign when as a result Portuguese were eliminated. Russians were eliminated by rebels but reappeared a few years later. After 86 years love is still in the air .
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    I think the main reason of this is the amount of ships cruising the seas. Nearly every faction that has access to the sea has dozens of them. They give them access to rebel provinces anywhere in he world. That's why for example Egyptians established their colonies in Sicily, Ireland and Wales. They are not forced to attack other faction when they can pick vulnerable rebel province and don't have to risk their fleets in unpredictable naval battles. Is it good or bad? I don't know but it's one of the strangest campaign I've ever played. Many sea regions look like this:
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    Blobs of ships everywhere. Imagine what will happen when real war starts.

    Considering units.
    The best are undoubtedly Frankish Crossbomen. 100 xbows compared to standard 40 or 60 is a huge difference. Salvo from 4 of them can massacre any unit.
    2nd is Tyrolian Cavalry. The +2 valour bonus from stables and +3 from metalsmith makes them very good (close to lesser knights) light cavalry capable of not only chasing routers but flanking and softening their targets before charge too. It's very versatile, multi-task unit. They can even dismount before battle.
    3rd is Flemish Infantry. They are only a bit worse than the best Imperial Guard but cost only half to maintain. They have 20 men less per unit but I use them as a cover for range units so they usually see very little fighting.
    The rest of my army contains Heavy Infantry and Feudal Knights. I still haven't decided which archers will be better: Royal Archers (40 man) or Slavic Bowmen (60 man). I think Slavic but tests will tell.
    Last edited by Stazi; 11-04-2013 at 22:07.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Alright, some proper comments about the HRE and its adventures under "Kaiser Staz"...


    The “Summer of Love”…

    Obviously peace is popular at the moment and that is fairly common, everybody tries essentially to ally with everybody, I seen that many times. It typically won’t last. My guess is, from the limited info I have here is that either Moors (striking on Spain) or the Lombards (striking at the Italians in Venice) will be the first ones to start war. Those two seems to be the most likely to initiate war – ever before all rebel-land is taken. Saracens and Byzantines will probably go to war once all Rebel-territory are taken – which I suspect the HRE will play an instrumental part in. Ergo, the Summer of Love will not last, that’s my guess, if it did it would be exceptional to say the least.

    The fleet-craze…

    It certainly looks weird with all those ships floating about. Still I doubt it will last forever, once war breaks out. My gueass is that the seas will be clear out in due course – time will tell.
    I also notice that there are a dominance of 4-5 factions in the seas. Byzantium, Saracens, Italy, Aragon and the Norse – All are classical (and the most likely) naval powers in redux in my experience. Is any of these powers even close to having a serious army anywhere? Or have they wasted all their resources on their fleets? Each ship is roughly the equivalent of 1 land-unit wasted on the seas. Had all tose ships been troops, It would have been very different for sure. Of course, there are advantages with ships too – up to a point. If I must chose between army and fleet – army wins every time. From what I can see this campaign has so far a different taken on that, or so it certainly seems…

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I think the main reason of this is the amount of ships cruising the seas. Nearly every faction that has access to the sea has dozens of them. They give them access to rebel provinces anywhere in he world. That's why for example Egyptians established their colonies in Sicily, Ireland and Wales. They are not forced to attack other faction when they can pick vulnerable rebel province and don't have to risk their fleets in unpredictable naval battles. Is it good or bad? I don't know but it's one of the strangest campaign I've ever played.
    I share that temporary assessment of the circumstance (this far). Saracens in Sicily, Naples and even Sardinia is fairly common but Ireland and Wales – not so much. If nothing else this is good example of “the why” rebel-fleets are an important element to the game and its dynamics, especially at start up. I suspect that all this will end or change eventually once the wars break out, much like yourself (as I understand it).

    Internal strength of the Empire...

    It quite obvious that this is a high priority for you. Personally, I think it is a healthy one, especially with an empire that has that many borders. Had it not been for Flanders, farming and mining had probably been what sustained the empire (save some minor trade too perhaps). It seems almost systematic with all those castles about. I think that this sort of "dicipline" or restraint will eventually pay off - one way or the other. Had it been me, I would probably been more eager to "redraw" my borders somehow, and I would not have allied as much as you do. I guess it also matter of style, how we prefer to do things. I take it that you don't use any mercenaries?

    What are the Kaisers plans for his empire?

    I notice that you are fairly peaceful yourself… What are your actual plans, besides grabbing promising rebel-held provinses? What is your next goal after that? What faction is most likely to be the HRE’s first regular enemy. What scenarios of war is discussed at the imperial high-command? From the pic it seems only france is the only neighbour with the capacity to be a some kind of threat somehow, all others look very weak (which is a weird sight for me. Although I typically play v.1.1, which AI-wise behaves somewhat differently to VI/v.2.01).

    Imperial Troops…

    I guess it is a matter of fighting style. Overall, the HRE has a truly great unit-roster, a partly it can explained by being the largest in the game. It can basically cater to any fighting style with ease and still offer then some. It also has more specialist-units then most factions, I think(?). Anyways, your assessment of imperial troops seems very reasonable to me, but had I been the Kaiser, I would have gone for different troops myself such as Royal Archers, Heavy- and Frankish Infantry and Feudal Knights. That’s the stuff I would use in battle. If I would use any crossbows it would probably be Heavy Crossbow-units.

    As for the Flemish Infantry, yeah those are good, I would have relied on them too, whenever possible (they are hard to come by, Flanders only or some such). However, you don’t fuss with the imperial guard as they are among the best infantry in the game – especially in killing cavalry and knights and that better then most (and they also are available in large parts of Europe)… It’s essentially a prestige and terror unit of the empire. BTW, I would like to also say that this is an open activity, so everybody inclined are free to join the discussion here at any time. What troops should Kaiser Staz focus on/build? Etc. etc.

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 11-04-2013 at 23:00. Reason: Da English!

  5. #5
    Member Member Zarakas's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    100 Frankish crossbowmen units can be very effective in defence when placed on high ground. In particular if you can cover them with heavy imperial guard and other good troops. They cut through the attacking forces.

    I think Staz should concentrate on defensive troops to defend flanders and other important provinces around borders of empire. Should concentrate on conquest of island provinces as they can be defended easier with less troops and good navy, in particular the north seas. I would suggest strengthening the north sea navy.

  6. #6

    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Nice campaign and description, Stazi. I've often seen this "cold war" type buildup -- with each faction jockeying for a better position at the expense of the rebels. If you make the first move against another Christian (or even Muslim) faction, expect most of your allies to desert you. Yes, those Flemish infantry are quite superb, aren't they? Personally, I've found royal spearman to be overpriced and underperforming by comparison. They always seem to die in droves, while doing no more damage, seemingly, than the less professional units such as Frankish spearmen. Flemish spears, when you can get them, are the way to go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    Saracens in Sicily, Naples and even Sardinia is fairly common but Ireland and Wales – not so much.
    I've also seen the Saracens take Ireland and Wales — (in 1003, Saracen-held Ireland became the target of my holy French crusade). And, yeah, not having the Sicilians in game leaves an interesting vacuum in Southern Italy and the coastal islands, which is most often exploited by one of the Muslim factions.

    By the way, have there been any crusades yet, Stazi? (I'm guessing not.) Maybe the HRE can be the first to bring the glory of the cross to those benighted arabs. **Heavy sarcasm here**

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    The fleet-craze…

    If nothing else this is good example of “the why” rebel-fleets are an important element to the game and its dynamics, especially at start up. I suspect that all this will end or change eventually once the wars break out, much like yourself (as I understand it).
    Ha, ha! I feel vindicated! Indeed, even with rebel fleets set to max, there will eventually be a build-up of sea power by the other factions. But it will take much longer… I am curious, Axalon, about what was changed in the current build to make rebels train less fleets? Is it something to do with faction personality? Is it difficult to change back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarakas View Post
    100 Frankish crossbowmen units can be very effective in defence when placed on high ground. In particular if you can cover them with heavy imperial guard and other good troops. They cut through the attacking forces.
    Agreed. Again, going back to my French campaign in 1003, I found that the Frankish xbows packed more or less the same (devastating) punch as the heavy xbows, but for much less $$. As Zarakas says, placed on higher ground and defended properly with spears and/or heavy cav, those guys can rain death on approaching enemy ranks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    [I] I take it that you don't use any mercenaries?
    This is an important question. I haven't played enough of 1004 to now whether the roster has changed at all, but it might be worth opening a separate thread to discuss mercenaries in Redux. What does everyone think? Do you use mercenary eliteguard? Mercenary cavalry or spears? What about those small-sized, but potentially deadly, mercenary archer units?

    Personally, I only use mercenaries as a last resort. They are expensive to hire and retain, and I also consider it a mild form of cheating, since the AI never hires any. That said, my Christian kings have often kept a contingent of eliteguard around them, just in case...

  7. #7
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    My guess is, from the limited info I have here is that either Moors (striking on Spain) or the Lombards (striking at the Italians in Venice) will be the first ones to start war.
    This reminds me of the fact that Lombards was eliminated quite early by the rebels.

    The second thing I've forgot to mention was my colony (kind of) in Scotland (you can see it in the distance on the first picture). High Command was searching for a source of good and lightly armoured infantry for future operations planned in the eastern and southern Mediterranean. After a little training and reequipping Claymore Warriors should fit the role perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    I also notice that there are a dominance of 4-5 factions in the seas. Byzantium, Saracens, Italy, Aragon and the Norse – All are classical (and the most likely) naval powers in redux in my experience. Is any of these powers even close to having a serious army anywhere? Or have they wasted all their resources on their fleets?
    Saracens have the biggest army in the game right now. Byzantium and Italian have also significant amount of troops and actively fight with independent provinces. Aragon and Norse - maybe one not a full stack per faction at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    I take it that you don't use any mercenaries?
    No. I don't use mercenaries. It's unfair when AI can't hire them too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Axalon View Post
    What are the Kaisers plans for his empire?

    I notice that you are fairly peaceful yourself… What are your actual plans, besides grabbing promising rebel-held provinses? What is your next goal after that? What faction is most likely to be the HRE’s first regular enemy. What scenarios of war is discussed at the imperial high-command? From the pic it seems only france is the only neighbour with the capacity to be a some kind of threat somehow, all others look very weak (which is a weird sight for me.
    It depends on the situation. The plan now (year 786) is to develop my core provinces to the max and build a strong expeditionary armies to spread the faith to the east and north. Lithuania and Norse are the most feasible victims... oops.. I mean they are first to be enlightened and returned to the bosom of the Christian Church. Of course there are two problems. The main problem is Poland which stays in our way and, as it's a Christian faction, Pope will surely has something to say about it. To avoid it, blitz campaign is planned and that's why we need strong and numerous forces. I'm sure two provinces in two years isn't too difficult task for the Imperial Army. The second problem is Norse navy. Unfortunately, it's much bigger than ours. Additionally, it blocks direct access to Sweden making quick, one year campaign impossible. But I'm sure sooner or later an opportunity will arise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprian2 View Post
    By the way, have there been any crusades yet, Stazi? (I'm guessing not.) Maybe the HRE can be the first to bring the glory of the cross to those benighted arabs.
    No. Not a single crusade yet. I'd gladly send a crusade or two but teasing the Saracen's fleet is not a good idea right now.

    That's it for now. New report will come shortly.
    Last edited by Stazi; 11-05-2013 at 18:31.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

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    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    A.D. 797. The year when things started to change. But the changes weren't totally unexpected. For the last ten years special forces of all factions were extremely active. A least 4-5 assassins were getting caught each year (even the Pope participated in it). Unfortunately, not all of them were stopped early enough. Life of my emissaries and bishops became extremely short. From those times comes the story about brave emissary who was sent on a mission through very dangerous, enemy territory. One day he was ambushed by two assassins. He not only managed to kill both of them with their bare hands but he successfully finished his mission too (Kaiser was so pleased that he thanked him directly in front of the whole court). Evidently, diplomacy and university studies weren't his only interests. The rumour about this incident spread around the world quickly. In the result no other assassin tried to kill him, ever.


    But what's really important happened this year? At first, it looked like an unimportant border incident. Saracens easily conquered Sinai but a few units of muslim riders crossed the border of Egypt. Mameluks have taken this personally and that's how the full-scale war started. After about 15 years Saracens lost 90% of their territory and Mameluks became the main power in the Middle-East and the strongest faction in the world.
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    English has very similar story. Now the Flemish rule the southern England. Normandy is the last English province.
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    During the war with Mameluks, Saracens lost Sicily. High Command strongly advised to take control over Sicily and argued it will be a perfect base for our future operations in the Mediterranean. It was found that many members of the High Command were strongly "supported" by the Merchants Guild that wanted to have their own port and reduce the maintenance of their ships. After it came out a few members of High Command were changed.

    Instead, Cauronia was choose as the first province in the eastern Europe where true Christianization will start.
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    Hmm... what else? Ooh, yes. Moors conquered Byzantine's colony in Andalusia. At first, it didn't look that bad. Moors attacked but Emperor Michael VIII sent an army commanded but one of the greatest general in history. Moors was forced to retreat but they didn't give up. Khalif gathered nearly all his troops from Portugal, Cordoba, Granada and Marocco and striked back. When the general saw the Moors' army he realized there is no strategy that can help him to defeat such a force. It is believed that his last words in Andalusia were "F*** it. Board the ships! We are leaving!". Byzantines left Andalusia for good. War ended naturally and peace treaty was signed shortly after.

    Norse has their own problems too. Rebels from Norway conquered Sweden. Norse didn't get their chance to get it back because Italians were faster.
    French conquered all rebel provinces and started to look for new lands.

    The year 812 has come. The year when prince Ferdinand matured and became very promising young men. Nobody expected it'll be the last year of golden age, peace and prosperity.
    Last edited by Stazi; 11-05-2013 at 22:45.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

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  9. #9

    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Alright, time we had a new post here… So, some various comments on various posts…

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarakas View Post
    I think Staz should concentrate on defensive troops to defend flanders and other important provinces around borders of empire. Should concentrate on conquest of island provinces as they can be defended easier with less troops and good navy, in particular the north seas. I would suggest strengthening the north sea navy.
    Makes sense to me… Personally, I would be more aggressive and change the borders, but that’s just me. It’s a matter of playing-style. A highly defensive playing-style will provide plenty of safety and stability in contrast to rapid and less careful expansion. The AI will always be less inclined to do war with a defensive, well garrisoned and internally strong factions – in contrast to the internally weaker but more expanded empire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprian2 View Post
    By the way, have there been any crusades yet, Stazi? (I'm guessing not.)
    Redux won’t allow the AI to launch any crusades due to an all too crappy track-record on it. It hurts more then it helps the AI-faction that launches one. So there won’t be any by default designs for that very reason… Had all this been different, I would have allowed it in the designs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprian2 View Post
    I am curious, Axalon, about what was changed in the current build to make rebels train less fleets? Is it something to do with faction personality? Is it difficult to change back?
    A large part of it all are my designs/fault and the rest is your average MTW weirdness (which very difficult to counter, control or even understand - unlike the designs). And nope, it is not easy to “change it back” and get the same results as in RXB1003. Furthermore it is well worth to note that this kind of performance-problem seems to be limited to the VI/v.2.01-version only. The V.1.1 performs as well as ever, and the truth is that the V.1.1 has the better AI of the two, regardless. It reacts and acts much faster to everything while the VI/v.2.01 is sluggish and slow by comparison – that circumstance was well established long before v.1004. The drawback of v.1.1 is a less stable game...

    From what I have seen so far - outside this HRE-campaign – the VI/v.2.01 have a tendency to perform rather poorly in 1004 on general terms (often too many ships on the map, which eventually cripples factions). I expect a Redux-AI to perform much better then that - and it does in the v.1.1-version for instance (which was the template transfered to the VI/v.2.01 but the versions evidently react differently to the same designs - which is not making things any easier for me). I'll probably create some sort of special fix for the VI/v.2.01 somehow. We'll see, I'll have to find a viable solution first, before any of that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyprian2 View Post
    This is an important question. I haven't played enough of 1004 to now whether the roster has changed at all, but it might be worth opening a separate thread to discuss mercenaries in Redux. What does everyone think? Do you use mercenary eliteguard? Mercenary cavalry or spears? What about those small-sized, but potentially deadly, mercenary archer units?
    A separate thread? Hmmm… I can see that happening…


    ***

    Overall I liked post: 8, I think it was both fun and interesting to read. Staz, you might be better at this then you give yourself credit for. Unfortunately, I have been busy elsewhere this past week and have had few chances to post until now – hence my delayed response here (to everything). In turn I get the feeling that whatever remarks I post now they will be outdated to the actual current progression of the empire and so I’ll hold on all that until more recent news of this campaign is forwarded here. One thing however…

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    Instead, Cauronia was choose as the first province in the eastern Europe where true Christianization will start.
    That strikes me as the safer alternative to Sicily, regardless what the “Merchant Guild” thinks. Besides, them (future) Hansa boys should stick to what they know best anyways – counting silver - not meddling in military affairs of the empire! That said, what did happen when Ferdinand came to power? And, did the Merchants learn their lesson or did they try to meddle in his reign too?

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 11-10-2013 at 11:24. Reason: corrections...

  10. #10
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi @Stazi ,
    ....will there be some more reporting? I´d be interested, for example, wether the Norse got back a grip in the game of power or just dimpled along (often they cope very badly in AI-hands)? Or did the English regain some strength? What happened between HRE and the French? Having taken Couronia, how did the Russians react to that? Or did you finish the campaign already without letting us know what happened?

    Hoping-for-details greetings, daigaku

  11. #11
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    I've stopped playing the campaign a little later. I've got to the moment when my troop producing provinces are fully developed, my armies are fully developed and upgraded, I have tons of cash and the only thing left is steamrolling other countries. I win battles while outnumbered 3:1 or even 5:1 with minimal losses. The fun is over.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  12. #12
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi @Stazi,

    ...a pity, but I know this state all too good, especially with (Vanilla)Danes/(Redux)Norse. In Redux, most between year 950 and 1100 the fun disappears. Not being a steamroller myself, I stop then if there is no more challenge as well.
    Nevertheless, if you´ve got something interesting going, please tell!

    greetings daigaku

  13. #13

    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi guys, I just wanted to throw in a few remarks on that note.

    I think what you guys are describing is a dead give away sign that you're actually playing below you skill-levels, and then you essentially complain about it. A circumstance that you guys have in large part generated and created yourselves. I have seen this many times over at standard MTW-section - but I have to admit, it’s a first here at the Redux-area.

    I’m not saying that my designs are perfect somehow or that they can not be improved upon. They always can, somehow. However, it’s hardly a secret that the "VI-1004e" is vastly superior to "VI-1004a" in the overall game experience and general AI-performance by itself, now is it? The point being that, in order to improve the RX-designs further, for a better game-experience, they need additional testing and input. You guys can either help out with that by posting this and possible suggestions for consideration. There is also a veteran-level which none of you have touched so far, right? It is possible that we might never fully escape the circumstances you guys are describing, however this is not a matter of 100% designs only, it also a matter playing style.

    Both of you are defensive and very thorough players as I understand it, leaving little or nothing to chance, both in battle and beyond. Such traits certainly increases the chances and circumstances that things essentially end up in all that what you are describing. You are thus partly to blame for it yourselves. Maxed out units are obviously better then not maxed out units. That will obviously be reflected in battle-results. It’s unrealistic to expect that the even a RX-AI will also only deploy maxed out, experienced units. Or be as happy about and skilful at micromanaging crossbow-units as you are Staz. Or as methodical and patiently hiking in the forest, for optimal results as you are Dai. You guys are maximizing your chances as human players in ways that is clearly beyond the capacity of the AI, it can’t keep up with that. I’m not blaming you guys for your playing styles, but it is clearly a bit too effective for its own good, as it obviously don’t deliver as much adventure and excitement as you would like. In order to get there you’ll have to let go and be more reckless and daring while playing, and probably play at veteran...

    That said, in order to get a better overall game-experience even after some X turns, I need input, intel and suggestions to consider. You boys can provide that, by posting some, and help yourselves by helping me improve Redux. Or you can do zilch and get as much excitement and fun in the end. Your call…

    ***


    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Nevertheless, if you´ve got something interesting going, please tell!
    Well, if you feel that way Dai, perhaps you could post some feedback on my big “experiment-post” over at the main/general thread. I posted it, in the hopes it would be interesting somehow for people here…

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I win battles while outnumbered 3:1 or even 5:1 with minimal losses.
    Actually, I would love to see a recording or two of such a battle(s), Staz. Just to see what you are doing when achieving such results. If you don't mind? ...?...

    - A

  14. #14
    Member Member Stazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    I think what you guys are describing is a dead give away sign that you're actually playing below you skill-levels, and then you essentially complain about it. A circumstance that you guys have in large part generated and created yourselves.
    Your're right about all but complaining. I play the way I like. Don't take it personally. You've made a great mod but there is a lot of hardcoded limits you can't do much about (especially AI). I can fight battles with green, low end units when I'm forced to (and I still enjoy it) but it feels like I failed as a king (or diplomat). When a battle is played not on my terms or when I'm surprised by an enemy attack it means that something went wrong. I try to avoid such situations as much as I can. It usually leads to turtling and I can't help it.

    The other thing is that I like to watch. I keep low at the start and observe the others. I like when an other country becomes strong and its big armies provide a real threat for me. When you attack quick and become a dominating power, the whole game starts to revolve entirely around you. The moment when you have the most provinces and biggest army everyone becomes hostile or neutral (at best) to you even if there is no sense in it. After several turns, when you have to fight a few battles every turn, it starts to feel like a hard, dull work. I like to play a battle from time to time, especially a challenging one, but playing a few battles, turn by turn, is boring. That's why I've never finished any campaign.

    Considering battles - I don't play MTW right now so I can't show you any battle (I'll record one or two next time). Generally, my strategy concentrates around luring enemies into attacking me where I want to be attacked. The AI tends to underestimate the quality of units and it leads to tragic results. When I have a fully prepared army I soften my border forces to 16 or sometimes even less units. AI attacks, gets beaten, I attack the province where the decimated army retreated (usually winning easily) and... process repeats. Winning battles (attacking or defending) is not a big deal when you have 16 high quality units commanded by a good general. I know, it's very secure way of playing but I like it.

    Veteran level - when battles change into slaughterhouse because of increased morale? Not a fan of. I haven't played on this difficulty for a long time but I'll try it next time in Redux.
    "Do not fight for glory. Do not fight for love of your lord. Do not fight for hatred, honor or faith. Fight only for victory and you will succeed." - Uji sensei.

  15. #15
    Member Member daigaku's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi, friends,
    @Axalon:

    Both of you are defensive and very thorough players as I understand it, leaving little or nothing to chance, both in battle and beyond
    Thus far, you´re right. For my part, i´d add "striving for absolute naval superiority" and "money grabber" as well ;-))

    In Vanilla, I got bored on "expert" as well, being too easy for me. So I gave a very brief try to XL, but this posing no more challenge than Vanilla, I was really happy to find your Redux. Had to learn things to be different, and much to my taste - here I only can add my thanks for Redux to Stazi´s one.
    Having to learn about all the changed games mechanics and getting to know strengths and weaknesses of the different factions, of course my first games are played "casual". But not for long, I can reassure you. Parallel to my (first)1004eVI/Russian/casual campaign I am playing a 1003VI/Norse/veteran campaign (other rig), which is fun. Even leaving the English alone to get them strong before taking the island (as usual, Ireland is mine already).

    as it obviously don’t deliver as much adventure and excitement as you would like
    Now, you know what my excitement is? To get as many of my brave guys as possible home after battle. Every lost man is my personal failure. I simply imagine a REAL battle, thinking about my men and about the country they live in, and I don´t want to loose neighter men nor land to anybody not caring for them/it as good as I do (there should be, in my opinion, even some influence increase in the game for keeping my people happy, rich and alive!). The kick is to build up, as far as possible, to have the best drill possible, and, if really necessary, to beat the enemy with the least lost men possible.
    Redux does make that quite a bit harder than Vanilla, therefor I play it. And, as said quite often, con mucho gusto ;-)
    @Stazi:

    Waiting and building up until there are only left some 4-6 really strong factions - one of my favourites as well. This "every turn a few battles" thingy doesn´t happen too often to me, because I mainly play GA, not total domination. As some examples: Playing English, I normally only take the Islands and the Lithuanian provinces till far into the game, later on taking Scandinavia - that´s it. As Norse, it´s nearly the same - Scandinavia, Ireland, Lithuanian country, and later the english island. As Russian, it´s the straight line Couronia-Berezan, Ireland, and Sicily for mediterranian ship production.

    My first Norse/veteran game is really great - and the Norse have got quite some buildings to boost their "naturally" already enormous morale even further, so the penalty you get against the AI is neglectable ;-)) Really worth a try, I´d say.

    Greetings to all,

    daigaku

  16. #16
    Member Member Zarakas's Avatar
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    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi Axalon

    I play a very similar style to Stazi and Dai. I always play on Veteran level.

    Redux is a great mod, and i congratulate you on your work. It is definatly a different experience to other mods and the original. These days I only play redux.
    I enjoy "supremacy", great idea/concept. My favourite faction are the Byzantines, i also play Norse, English etc.

    MTW original offered different periods and units, in addition, it also had the Mongols. This added the need to prepare, and change of strategy for the player. Some suggestions to changes for period after 900AD.

    Byzantines - 900AD and later

    1. Maybe a stronger power to the East or North East, say a greater Russia or Steppes faction to challange the Byzantines.
    2. Maybe an addition to unit types

    Best regards to all,
    zarakas

  17. #17

    Default Re: HRE-campaign in Redux v1004 (Hard)

    Hi again guys... Some replies here and there for you...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I play the way I like.
    But of course you do, I was not trying suggest you do otherwise - in the event that I somehow did, it was truly not my intention here. I was suggesting that playing-style might be a partial cause for your problems, as described. And, I was forwarding possible “counter-measures” for it, or so I believe....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    You've made a great mod
    Its not every day I hear you say something like that... Thanks…

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I can fight battles with green, low end units when I'm forced to (and I still enjoy it) but it feels like I failed as a king (or diplomat). When a battle is played not on my terms or when I'm surprised by an enemy attack it means that something went wrong. I try to avoid such situations as much as I can. It usually leads to turtling and I can't help it.
    Fair enough… Its understandable and I can’t say I blame you for it…

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    The other thing is that I like to watch. I keep low at the start and observe the others. I like when an other country becomes strong and its big armies provide a real threat for me. When you attack quick and become a dominating power, the whole game starts to revolve entirely around you. The moment when you have the most provinces and biggest army everyone becomes hostile or neutral (at best) to you even if there is no sense in it. After several turns, when you have to fight a few battles every turn, it starts to feel like a hard, dull work. I like to play a battle from time to time, especially a challenging one, but playing a few battles, turn by turn, is boring. That's why I've never finished any campaign.
    I can fully understand and relate to that, you do have a point… However, I can not help but to think that in part you are saying seem to be more colored by, and relevant to, standard MTW (and other mods) then it is with Redux. It’s hard to “attack quick and become a dominating power” just like that in Redux, usually the problems with stability and rebellions kills such a strategy right away from the start. It takes much more time and effort in Redux... That circumstance clearly sets it apart from the rest. See the general thread post: 581 it should illustrate my point clearly. Or am I too picky here? ...?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    I know, it's very secure way of playing but I like it.
    Well in that case, carry on. As long as you realize that, if the excitement dries away due to things being too "secure" and "predictable" for you – it’s probably because you pushed all things into that very direction. As long as you well aware of that, knock yourself out in whatever fashion that suits you man. If you like it, who am I to argue with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stazi View Post
    Veteran level - when battles change into slaughterhouse because of increased morale? Not a fan of. I haven't played on this difficulty for a long time but I'll try it next time in Redux.
    I guess we all have our different takes on this. There are valid points to be had on both sides. The AI-bonuses are there for sure. All the same this will probably be the only true solution to your dilemma as I understand it. I think you should at least try it. Just to make sure it’s not for you, alright? Redux is after all different, all over. You might like it, you never know….

    ***

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    here I only can add my thanks for Redux to Stazi´s one.
    While a bit more generous with occasions for expressing your praise Dai, I still very much appreciate it, all the same… As ever… :)

    Quote Originally Posted by daigaku View Post
    Now, you know what my excitement is? To get as many of my brave guys as possible home after battle. Every lost man is my personal failure. I simply imagine a REAL battle, thinking about my men and about the country they live in, and I don´t want to loose neighter men nor land to anybody not caring for them/it as good as I do (there should be, in my opinion, even some influence increase in the game for keeping my people happy, rich and alive!). The kick is to build up, as far as possible, to have the best drill possible, and, if really necessary, to beat the enemy with the least lost men possible. Redux does make that quite a bit harder than Vanilla, therefor I play it. And, as said quite often, con mucho gusto ;-)
    How can I argue with all that? Carry on….


    I have replied to Zarakas post in the main/generalthread, see post: 583…



    EDIT:
    -------------------------------------

    Thread-split/posts moved, as to preserve topicality of thread. We have not been posting about the actual topic here for some time and as the thread-topic/project has been abandoned by its originator, we should rather leave this thread to die in peace. All deviating posts has been moved to the general thread where they have a much better home, and all related discussion of these (moved) posts are welcome to continue over there at your discretion. If nothing new that explicitly concerns to the actual topic here – then please do not make further posts here, instead use the general/main thread.

    - A
    Last edited by Axalon; 02-10-2014 at 23:53. Reason: Update...

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