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Thread: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

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    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    Update for EE edition

    According to CA (see these posts by Craig in totalwar.com), in a republic (such as GC Rome and Carthage), civil war risk appears after your party's influence is higher than 49%; the risk grows as your imperium and power increases. In a GC monarchy (a 2 party faction), a civil war risk appears at 70% and grows from there in a similar fashion as for republics. Civil wars have zero chance to start before Imperium level V though. In Augustus campaign, the same principles apply (unlike GC, the Roman factions are treated as monarchies in IA).

    In order for the new CW system to kick in a new campaign should be started. Mods can have unpredictable effects on the CW system.

    Also, the gravitas/influence system seems to be quite revamped. Promotions no longer have influence costs attached to them. Political sabotage actions have their influence costs reduced. All in all, high influence is much easier to attain now and it seems harder to avoid gaining higher influence past the Civil War risk points (49% for republics, 69% for monarchies).


    Mini-update (Patch 15 beta)

    I feel with many questions floating around due to patch 15, this needs a little update. The biggest change introduced with this patch seems that military (the first branch of authority, cunning, zeal) and political promotions now give +1 gravitas/turn. So generals now can can earn gravitas while idling in the field. Before patch 15, they could earn gravitas only if they won battles, sat in the capital or had a trait/ancillary giving gravitas each turn.

    With this change, having your party members sit in the capital no longer has as pronounced an effect as it used to. Generals in the field can easily accumulate promotions that give +10 or so gravitas per turn while doing nothing in the field. Moving them to the city would only improve the gain by +1.

    If your goal is to maximize your party's power, you should still avoid the opposition sitting in the capital or winning battles for that matter. Especially the latter part. Nothing hurts your party's influence as much as an opposition leader soaking up +10 gravitas/turn (after the opposition promotes him to the max).

    Illustration, republican game, Junia, legendary, post-victory screen game, started with patch 15, still no civil war:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Original Guide

    I have been playing around with politics for a couple weeks and have come up with some (undocumented) recipes that seem to work both for republics and monarchies. Maybe folks here find them useful. I have been preaching these ideas in other threads in bits and pieces but decided to put them together in one place here.

    Disclaimer: civil war will still happen, the question is when and where

    Managing your politics well, does not mean you will not get the civil war.

    Unless you already have gotten a civil war, you're bound to get one when you reach the fourth level of imperium. This was true before patch 7; now, we have to figure out when the default CW happens and for how long it is possible to delay it. However, managing politics well, can give you the luxury of getting the civil war when you're ready for it rather than it catching you with your pants down.

    There is also the question of where the rebel stacks spawn in a civil war. If your party's influence is low, the rebel stacks of doom spawn in the heart of your empire (for monarchies, "low influence" seems to be around 60%). On the other hand, if your party's influence is high, rebels spawn somewhere on the edge. Rebels can wreck quite some havoc if they spawn in the capital, the highly developed center of the empire, whereas them showing up on the edge gives the player more time to react. Edges of empires also usually are less developed. Thus, the economic shock of rebels capturing provinces is not as significant.

    Another positive side effect of managing influence is that you tend to get very highly promoted generals. High stars generals can get some very hefty battle perks. For example, the highest general's promotion in zeal can give you a monster that steals whooping 30% of your opponents morale in battles. Hit the target army with a champion and you can reduce morale by around 50% total; add an ambush and they're running before the battle starts. This does not happen exactly that way on legendary and VH difficulties where the AI gets difficulty significant morale boosts, but the underlying idea stays the same.

    Yet another benefit of playing the politics is that your major generals are never really exposed to the AI agents. Opposition assassins is a different matter but they can get to your general anywhere, in the capital or the field, or while he traveling back to the capital.

    Government systems: monarchies versus republics

    Republics and monarchies have different political goals. In republics, you do not want to let your influence go too high or fall it too low. Influence being excessively high or very low can trigger a civil war in republics. Influence also appears to be much more sensitive to changes in gravitas in republics than in monarchies. Because of this, in republics, you can have huge swings in influence every turn.

    On the other side of the token, in monarchies, you want your party's influence to be as high as possible at all times. In my experience, anything below 60% is a danger zone for civil war. CW is not a sure thing to happen when the party's influence is in the 50-60% range but is highly likely in higher levels of imperium. Being in high 70s, 80s have allowed me to cruise all the way to the 4th (12 army allowance) imperium. Again, this was true before patch 7; now, with the new imperium scale, the safe point is still to be found.

    My experience mostly lies with monarchies so far and most tips here are better suited for this government type.

    Earning and losing gravitas

    Gravitas (in particular, party-wide change in gravitas per turn) is the underlying fuel for influence in the game. Gravitas (and, by implication, influence) is earned by winning battles, through good traits, good household members & good wives, by sitting in the capital (in the statesman status) and through promotions. Promotions are a double edged sword though; in the case of monarchies, promotions tend to cost you more outright influence than what you gain from the extra gravitas gained by the promotee. This is different for republics. There, promotions almost always seem to result in influence gains as long as the party's influence is not very high to start with. Once the party's influence gets very high, new gains become much harder.

    Gravitas is also earned while traveling "back to the capital". So, if you send a general back to the capital, he will be earning a gravitas point for being a "traveling statesman". If you sent a statesman to lead an army in a battle and he wins, he will earn a gravitas point for that. If you send him back to the capital on the same turn, he will also be earning an extra gravitas point for traveling.

    Generals joining the battle as reinforcements earn gravitas too. This is something I noticed recently. The generals who join your battle as reinforcements earn battle experience and gravitas. Thus, if your main general wins the battle and earns gravitas, yet your reinforcing army was led by an opposition general who also gained gravitas, the total impact of this win on your party's influence could be nil. Both party's earned +1 gravitas creating a wash situation unless the ambition differential of generals skews it one way or another. In order to maximize influence gain, it is better to have your own party's general leading the reinforcing army.

    Earning and losing influence

    Influence gains seem to come from a relationship stemming from losing/gaining gravitas each turn and comparing this loss/gain against the other party's cumulative gain/loss of gravitas. All characters supposedly help the party to gain influence, but characters sitting in the capital appear to earn influence the fastest. On top of that, highly ambitious characters tend to gain more influence for their respective change in gravitas.

    Influence can also be earned (or lost) through promotions. Each promotion costs some influence, but adds some back (sometimes more than what was lost in the outright cost) through the resulting change in gravitas of the affected character. In the case of monarchies, it is advisable to promote only ambition 3 characters. Anyone lower than ambition 3 appears to cost more influence points in promotion than what is gained through the resulting gravitas boost. In republics, promoting lower level characters can result in an influence gain too. This is likely to be due to some "diminishing returns" mechanism in place described in more details a couple paragraphs below.

    In addition to adding gravitas, one of the higher level promotion adds an outright +2% influence gain per turn/faction wide. This seems to work as 2% of whatever influence your party has (not outright +2%). So, for example, if your party's influence is 60%, you'd be gaining 1.2% influence per turn, unless this is offset by influence gain by the opposition. It is possible too, that there is some decay factor in play. For example, less is gained if your influence is already high. I still have to determine if this bonus applies only if the general is in the field or also applies while he is traveling or sitting in the capital.

    It appears to be easier to gain influence while there are just a few generals (across all parties) around. As the imperium (and the number of generals, admirals) grows, per turn gains/loss seem to diminish. The imperium gain/loss also becomes less drastic as the party's influence grows to high levels. There appears to be some 'averaging' or diminishing returns mechanism in place.

    You lose (outright) influence through most political actions (assassinations, blackmail, etc.); hiring from your own party (however, you can end up gaining the influence "cost" right back if the new hireling has a combination of high gravitas and high ambition; it's a game of luck in a sense), bad traits and wives, badly lost battles, bad random events, etc. For monarchies, you probably want to limit your use of political actions (unless your goal is to trigger an early civil war). For republics: there might be cases where you want to use it in order to quickly reduce influence that has run too high.

    How Slaists deals with it

    To each their own: opposition generals serve as drill sergeants, own party's generals serve as fighters and politicians. I keep all the opposition members busy leading my armies/navies that are not directly fighting (minimize the time opposition generals sit in the capital as statesmen, ideally, there is nobody from the opposition in the capital at the end of any turn). If possible, I fight with only my own generals. I do this religiously. I prefer to fight with my high ambition generals rather than low ambition generals however, there are cases when I am forced to use my low ambition guys as well. In defense, sometimes you are forced to use an opposition general too.

    To achieve this: I rotate my high ambition generals between the city office and the field. I send them back to the city right after they done fighting (the same turn) unless more fights are foreseeable in the same location in the next turn. If I can, I prefer ALL my generals sitting in the capital waiting for an opportunity to grab some glory wherever in my empire it would appear the next turn. In an ideal peaceful turn, before the end-turn click, all my generals are sitting in the capital (or traveling to the capital), while all my opposition generals are drilling troops in the field. This of course, never really happens that way.

    There is another caveat to rotating which makes it a game of its own. Your general gets +1 gravitas for a battle won. However, if it was an opposition member who was replaced by your general, he will also be earning +1 gravitas for sitting in the capital for a turn. So, it will be a wash in terms of influence gain. However, influence gain scale will be skewed more towards the opposition since he'll be the one sitting in the capital (more influence gained there). How can you counter this? By insuring your winning general has higher ambition than the opposition one (ambition works as a multiplier for gravitas). On top of that, sending your gen back to the capital allows him to earn +1 more gravitas on the same turn.

    Note that the above works well for monarchies since maxing influence is what we want. For republics a more touch-and-go approach is recommended since you might want to give some influence to your opposition parties in order to avoid the civil war trigger that stems from growing your influence too high.

    A fine touch approach should also account for the balance of ambition and gravitas earned per battle and traveling back to the capital. You do not want any high ambition opposition generals leading your armies in areas with busy AI enemy traffic.

    For one, you might get attacked. A battle won with the opposition general of high ambition will lead to him gaining gravitas and levels. Once that happens, the opposition is likely to promote the general, resulting in your party losing influence. Since your influence would tend to be high due to management, you'd lose a lot from the opposition promoting their guy. Second, when sending an opposition general back to the capital, he would be earning gravitas while traveling (in the role of a statesman). Better this traveler be someone with low ambition (less impact on party's influence) or someone of your own party. I prefer the drill sergeants near the action to be of my own party.

    How to rotate generals. Some might have missed this interface feature so I will add it here. When you open the properties window for a selected army there are three tabs: one for the army, one for the general, one for the embedded agent (if you have one). On the general's tab there is a button called "replace". This will open an interface which allows one to send the active general to the capital so he becomes a politician the next turn. Actually, he will be shown as a traveling politician right away. You can replace your general either with any of the politicians active in the capital at the time or any of the candidates. The arrows next to the candidates list (by default showing 6 max) allows one to scroll through all the politicians in the capital even if they're hidden in the default selection of 6.

    Embedding leadership clues in army names. I have found it useful to indicate the general's party affiliation and ambition in the army titles. So, before each fight, even if I did not initiate the battle, I know what I have to play with. The naming system I use is simple. All I really care about is whether the army is led by my own party or the opposition and the general's ambition level. So, .p1 suffix for my own party with 1 ambition; .p2 suffix for my own party with 2 ambition; .p3 suffix for my own party with 3 ambition; .o1 for opposition with ambition of 1; .o2 for opposition with ambition of 1; .o3 for opposition with ambition of 3.

    Example: "I.o3 Bite of the Basilisk" name would tell me that the army is lead by an opposition general with ambition of 3. Most unfortunately, my seers foresee, this general would die from stray javelins during the heat of the battle. It is also possible that his troops would route on the first sight of the enemy (a truly shameful display indeed).

    Evil mothers in law (and other ancillaries). You will learn to appreciate evil mothers in law. Try this: attach an evil mother in law to the opposition leader. Do this only if he is young though, below 50, for the fear of losing this treasured camp follower as a collateral to an untimely death of the general. The general will be losing 2 gravitas each turn. Once the opposition leader is no longer the "leader", attach the evil mother in law to the next opposition chump drilling fresh recruits in the swamps next to your capital.

    Evil mothers in law come in handy also if you have a young, attractive 3 ambition opposition general but you cannot afford to adopt him (yet) because he is their leader or adopting him costs too much influence. Attach the camp follower, wait a few turns. Voila: the prospective son is ripe for adoption. On the opposite side of the token: watch out for tutors, etc., who give +1 to gravitas. Confiscate tutors from the opposition and your own guys with ambition of 1. Attach the gravitas boosting tutors to your own party members with level 3 ambition.

    Political actions. Be wary of using political actions. These cost outright influence and tend to have little reward. An exception to this rule for me is adoption of a 3 ambition opposition member. Also, in the case of republics, there might be situations when it is advisable to "give" some influence away (by assassinating an opposition leader, for example).

    Be careful with you hires. Finally, but not least: hire from your own party sparingly (especially, if playing as a monarchy). Each time you hire from your own party, it costs you influence. Better, hire from the opposition. See how the fresh general is. If he has ambition of 3, he might be a good candidate for adoption (as soon as possible). It will cost you influence, but so would a blind hire from your own party's pool. This time though, you will know exactly what you will be paying for (an ambition 3 general).

    An exception to losing influence from hiring from your own party seems the case when some general dies or is wounded. In that case, when, right before the turn start, you get the message inviting you to replace the affected general, if you choose one from your own party, this does not seem to cost any influence. Rather, in these cases, I tend to gain some influence from hiring from my own party. This might be a bug related to the fact that this hiring happens during the AI's turn technically and probably has something to do with how and when influence changes are accounted for.

    While getting the hang of the political system I would recommend to use the quick-save feature (unless playing on Legendary). Quick-save before you hire a new general, promote your own, adopt someone or execute a political action. See how your decision affects your party's influence. Load the quick-save and see how going in another direction changes the influence effect. Soon you'll develop a feel for which choices will lead to influence gain and which ones are likely to result in a loss.

    An easily accessible in-game 5 turn sand-box "tutorial" for the political system

    Roll as Suebi. Check your general roster. Your party starts with one general and one statesman. The opposition has 1 general. There should be an opposition candidate available. Swap your general in the field with the opposition candidate and send your general to the capital. Observe your total influence. Click through end-turn a few times, not doing anything. The opposition would be sitting in the field, doing nothing. Your generals would be sitting in the capital gaining gravitas and influence. On turn 5, check your party's influence. It should be significantly higher now. That pretty much sums up the process.
    Last edited by Slaists; 09-23-2014 at 18:18. Reason: Update for patch 15

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Very nice write up!

    I like the idea of tagging army names like that...easier than drilling down into the windows to find the guy's stats.

    How exactly do you think ambition plays into the calcs? Probably as a multiplicative modifier? So, a general with 2 ambition and 50 gravitas (2x50) has the same amount of influence as a 1 ambition / 100 gravitas character?

  3. #3
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Very nice write up!

    I like the idea of tagging army names like that...easier than drilling down into the windows to find the guy's stats.

    How exactly do you think ambition plays into the calcs? Probably as a multiplicative modifier? So, a general with 2 ambition and 50 gravitas (2x50) has the same amount of influence as a 1 ambition / 100 gravitas character?
    Thanks, man. Still editing the document, so might have added some tips/fixed some typos while you were reading.

    From my games, it seems, it is not the absolute gravitas level that determines influence gain but how gravitas changes every turn (one thing that seems to confirm this is that even if you kill off all of your opposition they will retain some influence). Some gravitas changes seem to be exempt from this calculation though (for example a general dying in a battle). I might be wrong on this one though because somewhere in the CA documents they suggest that gravitas itself affects influence. In my experience, if there is no change in gravitas: influence does not budge either. That's one of the reasons I prefer to keep my gens in the capital: an automatic gravitas gain for every single one of them during that turn.

    As to ambition: it seems to work as a multiplier, but I am not yet sure with what magnitude. From observing the difference between republics and monarchies, I have a nagging feeling there is some decay factor in play as well: so, less influence can be gained from the same change in gravitas at higher level of influence. In republics: you can have huge swings from 1st level promotion. In monarchies: you'll see very little change from that.
    Last edited by Slaists; 11-07-2013 at 20:35.

  4. #4
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    So has anyone been able to figure out what exactly causes the civil war? I have yet to have mine and I must say that Im a little bit nervous, especially since Im already taking on the Romans which requires all of my armies.
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    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    So has anyone been able to figure out what exactly causes the civil war? I have yet to have mine and I must say that Im a little bit nervous, especially since Im already taking on the Romans which requires all of my armies.
    I cannot say, I know exactly what triggers it. It seems random if you are below the highest level of imperium but the likelyhood of it happening seems be affected by your influence, imperium level and presence of ambition 3 generals (not clear yet, whether such generals inside your own party increase CW chances). The imperium level right before the last one is when the CW seems to become very likely but not a sure thing. With a monarchy, if you let your influence drop below 60, a CW tends to happen. Also, supposedly, ambition 3 generals can rebel on their own. Have yet to see that happen though.
    Last edited by Slaists; 11-07-2013 at 21:44.

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    Member Member Sp4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooahguy View Post
    So has anyone been able to figure out what exactly causes the civil war? I have yet to have mine and I must say that Im a little bit nervous, especially since Im already taking on the Romans which requires all of my armies.
    CA programming.

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4 View Post
    CA programming.
    Oh you...
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    Member Member Sp4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Apparently it's a mix of size of your empire, influence of your political faction and that of the 'others' faction and apparently the ambition rating of certain rival characters has something to do with it to.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Very good work Slaists, for a very crusial and important part of the game, looking forward for your further edits.
    I already follow your recomentations, posted in an other thread, about the own party characters acting as statements, whenever posible and for the first time in a R2 campaign i see the influence going up.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Right. Very stupid question, but how exactly do you move generals/statesmen around? I've been clicking and right clicking all over the shop but I seem to have, ahem, misplaced that option...

  11. #11
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    So go to the army details panel. On the right side of that panel you will see a button called "replace." Thats how you replace the general of an army.
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    Member Member Sp4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Yup and free generals automatically become statesmen and move to your capital (though they're invisible, save for the mention in the faction window).
    I've never checked... do the bonuses to tax rate and trade income and public order these people get, get applied to the capital province if they act as statesmen?

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    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Im not sure, but I dont think so. right now I have about 9 generals sitting in my capital and a lot of them give province bonuses and I dont see them when I open the province window.
    Reunification: a Marcomanni AAR (on permanent hiatus)
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  14. #14
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4 View Post
    Yup and free generals automatically become statesmen and move to your capital (though they're invisible, save for the mention in the faction window).
    I've never checked... do the bonuses to tax rate and trade income and public order these people get, get applied to the capital province if they act as statesmen?
    That's a good question. So far, I assumed they do not, but will check further.

    The bonuses actually applying in the capital would explain why I see rather big wealth fluctuations in the capital province.
    Last edited by Slaists; 11-08-2013 at 14:01.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    @Slaists, I've been trying this general-rotation thing out in my current campaign. I don't think I've quite got it down, and I think it's because I don't quite have enough generals.

    If I read this correctly, theoretically one needs twice as many generals as one has armies, right? One family and one opposition general per army? And then it follows that if/when fighting major wars, there's no real way to avoid having a few opposition generals sitting in capital gaining gravitas?

    I tried for a while to address this problem by parking opposition guys in 1-ship fleets off the coast, but then this just complicated the rotation by adding yet another turn. Did have the nice side effect, however, of being able to easily suicide a 3-ambition opposition general (un-adoptable because FL) into an enemy fleet.

  16. #16
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    @Bramborough, in my case I do not have exactly as many as twice the number of generals (as the number of armies). Managing the rotations becomes a sort of a game-inside-the-game. Sometimes you have the rotation available, at other times you do not. So you have to decide what to do. Leave your good general(s) inside the town gaining influence for you or leave him in the field. Do you fight the particular battle now, with the general at hand (potentially giving influence to the opposition) or wait a turn until your good general can be brought in?

    Usually, I have 2-4 good generals that I use in battles: the rest are placeholders (both, opposition and my own). The good ones have preferably ambition of 3 (but at times have to do with lower). When I do not have enough opposition guys as drill-sergeants, I use my own ambition 1 and 2 guys for the same purpose. With monarchies, especially in the later game (when I have around 80 influence): I tend to run out of opposition candidates, so have to do with my own low ambition ones.

    One thing, whenever I have an opposition candidate, I hire him immediately and put him ahead of a fleet (like you do). When I need him, I do not suicide him: I disband the fleet. The admiral becomes a politician and can be used to rotate where I need him to bring my own party member home. I rarely have more than 1 or 2 real fleets (that have other ships) so always have some slots in the fleet that can be used for grabbing those treasured opposition guys.
    Last edited by Slaists; 11-11-2013 at 14:20.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Yeah, I didn't really mean that I regularly suicide opposition guys. In one case I had a 3-ambition opposition general. He was a Faction Leader, so I couldn't adopt him. So I just parked him in a 1-ship fleet...but then the guy picks up a +gravitas wife and trait, so he's STILL gaining influence fast even though I've banished him to the dead-end post. Plus the guy was still relatively young, like 40-45ish, I was going to have to put up with this for another 20 turns or so. An enemy fleet happened by close to his port, so took the opportunity to dispose of him without spending money or influence.

    It wasn't really the 3-ambition non-adopt status that drove me to kill him, but rather the +gravitas problem on top of that. In effect, the guy was simply out of control.

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  18. #18
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Yeah, I didn't really mean that I regularly suicide opposition guys. In one case I had a 3-ambition opposition general. He was a Faction Leader, so I couldn't adopt him. So I just parked him in a 1-ship fleet...but then the guy picks up a +gravitas wife and trait, so he's STILL gaining influence fast even though I've banished him to the dead-end post. Plus the guy was still relatively young, like 40-45ish, I was going to have to put up with this for another 20 turns or so. An enemy fleet happened by close to his port, so took the opportunity to dispose of him without spending money or influence.

    It wasn't really the 3-ambition non-adopt status that drove me to kill him, but rather the +gravitas problem on top of that. In effect, the guy was simply out of control.
    Ah, then, it's a fully justified action.

  19. #19
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Added a bit about the location of the civil war spawn. This appears to be related to the influence of the ruling party. If the influence is low (around 60 for monarchy), the stack spawns in the capital. If the influence is high (around 80), the stack spawns on the edge of the empire; seems as far as possible from your armies.

  20. #20
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics

    Added the bit on reinforcing generals earning gravitas. This might be one of the reasons why many people claim their party's generals win battles yet the party does not gain influence:

    Generals joining the battle as reinforcements earn gravitas too. This is something I noticed recently. The generals who join your battle as reinforcements do not earn battle experience. However, they DO earn gravitas. Thus, if your main general wins the battle and earns gravitas, yet your reinforcing army was led by an opposition general who also gained gravitas, the total impact on your party's influence could be nil (both party's earned +1 gravitas creating a wash situation unless the ambition differential of generals skews it one way or another). So, better have your own party's general leading the reinforcing army if you have one.

  21. #21
    Stranger in a strange land Moderator Hooahguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    So now that the patch added more imperium levels, I wonder how this will affect the CW.
    Last edited by Hooahguy; 11-14-2013 at 19:39.
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    Yeah, I too am interested to see how the new imp levels work.

  23. #23
    Member Member Sp4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    Statesmen's retainers do not affect the capital settlement or province or have any effect whatsoever.

    Also, you can't take +1 gravitas retainers and give them to another general. They just disappear.

  24. #24
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sp4 View Post
    Statesmen's retainers do not affect the capital settlement or province or have any effect whatsoever.

    Also, you can't take +1 gravitas retainers and give them to another general. They just disappear.
    @Sp4, Yup, statesmen retainers do not seem to have any effect. However, you can give +1 gravitas retainers to other generals. I have done it many times. You have to wait for one turn in the field for the transfer to take effect though. It is also a 2 step process, first, you need to remove the retainer from the original host, wait one turn for the retainer to show up in the household; then give it to the new host.

    By the way, the +/- gravitas retainers still have their effect while statesmen are in the capital.
    Last edited by Slaists; 11-24-2013 at 16:43.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    By the way, the +/- gravitas retainers still have their effect while statesmen are in the capital.
    Question: has anyone found a way to add (or delete) a household member to a character currently acting as statesman in capital? I'm 99.99% sure that the answer is "no", and that household members can only be added/removed when the character is in "general/admiral" status, but thought I'd check.

    Also, seconding to confirm that it's perfectly possible to move +/- gravitas household members from character to character; just have to wait another turn as Slaists mentions.

    My usual failing in this realm is that I forget about the Evil Mother-in-Law, and whatever opposition general to whom I attached her dies off, then I lose her. I even put "EM" in the army/fleet name where that general is, and I still forget...

  26. #26
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Question: has anyone found a way to add (or delete) a household member to a character currently acting as statesman in capital? I'm 99.99% sure that the answer is "no", and that household members can only be added/removed when the character is in "general/admiral" status, but thought I'd check.

    Also, seconding to confirm that it's perfectly possible to move +/- gravitas household members from character to character; just have to wait another turn as Slaists mentions.

    My usual failing in this realm is that I forget about the Evil Mother-in-Law, and whatever opposition general to whom I attached her dies off, then I lose her. I even put "EM" in the army/fleet name where that general is, and I still forget...
    LOL, that EMOL (that's how I abbreviate her)... yeah, she is a pesky one. I try to remove her once a general hits his mid 50s.

    And nope, have not found a way to change retainers while the generals are mingling in the capital. Only been able to do that while they are in the field.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    This is a very good guide! Thanks for posting it!

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  28. #28

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    Very good guide indeed! I got the game a bit late and am still getting the feel for it in my first campaign, so this helped a lot seeing as there is no in-game tutorial to politics (that I'm aware of anyway).

    All and all it feels they might have overdone the whole system with politics, at least from what I've seen so far. The whole gravitas ---> influence ---> promotions-mechanic appears pretty good and sensible, but when you have to spend influence to gain influence and actually replace your generals to advance it kind of takes the fun out of it. Actually I had a similar problem as the one Bramborough described with a high ambition faction leader for an opposing faction with a +gravitas wife. Still not quite sure how it happened but that general lived for ages, pushing his faction past mine by right of a good wife alone, which appeared rather silly for me as new to the game. Oh well, thanks to this guide I'm finally making progress so maybe it'll turn around :)

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  29. #29
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellicin View Post
    Very good guide indeed! I got the game a bit late and am still getting the feel for it in my first campaign, so this helped a lot seeing as there is no in-game tutorial to politics (that I'm aware of anyway).

    All and all it feels they might have overdone the whole system with politics, at least from what I've seen so far. The whole gravitas ---> influence ---> promotions-mechanic appears pretty good and sensible, but when you have to spend influence to gain influence and actually replace your generals to advance it kind of takes the fun out of it. Actually I had a similar problem as the one Bramborough described with a high ambition faction leader for an opposing faction with a +gravitas wife. Still not quite sure how it happened but that general lived for ages, pushing his faction past mine by right of a good wife alone, which appeared rather silly for me as new to the game. Oh well, thanks to this guide I'm finally making progress so maybe it'll turn around :)

    Kind regards
    @Bellicin, I myself do not have a huge problem with the need to rotate the generals: it is actually representative of how things worked in Rome. If someone was far in the field and neglected the home political life they lost influence. Cesar went to great length to maintain his while he was campaigning in Gaul.

    Also, the rotation indirectly helps to level up generals since they are available to be dispatched to any corner of your empire.

    The influence shift with promotions also is not that bad. If you carry out big political decisions some in your party might agree, some might not. My feel is that in order to maximize influence it's best to promote only ambition 3 generals and leave the rest without any promotions. That's in monarchies. In republics: promote away :)
    Last edited by Slaists; 12-07-2013 at 20:47.

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  30. #30

    Default Re: Slaists guide to RTW 2 politics (game version: patch 6)

    One thing you might want to add. I've found sending opposing factions members with high influence on suicide missions. Do you know what effect this has on parties when a member dies?

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