What is your go-to army composition?

[Myth]

Has anyone made any real practical use of the Iceni donkey carts (aka. chariots)?

[Slaists]

Has anyone made any real practical use of the Iceni donkey carts (aka. chariots)?

A friend of mine tried to use them on my half-depleted units the other day. I was playing the side of a weak AI (levy spears, slingers, that sort of mix) whom he was chasing on the map. The result: loads of dead chariots. On their own, chariots seem pretty useless to me.

I hear, to use them effectively you need many units per army (not one or two). First, need to try to get the target unit lose its cohesion (entice them to run). Then, charge chariots in, and run them out the other side immediately (this means you need open space behind the target, no uphill terrain, no trees, etc.). Follow up that chariot charge (almost immediately) with some heavy chavalry. The disorganized target unit will be ripe for a kill.

Elephants work the same way, btw. Those though, do not need the target to be disorganized in the first place. They (the elephants) make the target disorganized. If the elephant charge is followed up by a heavy cavalry one: dead spears, etc. abound. Good to take care of those pesky AI spear units chasing your cavalry.

[GermanicWarlord]

I like to go heavy on everything. I like to go a Barbarian faction like Suebi or Iceni and get a lot of heavy infantry and cavalry. That (generally) works for me.

[Bramborough]

Did it really kill that number in the charge or were the kills assigned after the battle? In my experience, the end-battle (once the enemy is routing) button assigns ridiculous amounts of router kills to elephants and chariots. In one battle, my elephants got around 500 kills assigned to them. There is no way they killed that many in the battle (the unit just charged one spear unit in the rear).

I've noticed that too. Not just elephants/chariots, but every unit gets an inflated kill count after the battle...even units which didn't engage, or only very lightly. It's not uncommon in my playstyle for missile troops and artillery to inflict enough casualties early to cause a complete enemy rout (mainly talking a minor settlement attack...where the defenders let one get away with this). Yet my infantry, not having entered and fought, still come away with "kills" in the post battle screen. Are these extras battle captives, perhaps?

[Slaists]

I've noticed that too. Not just elephants/chariots, but every unit gets an inflated kill count after the battle...even units which didn't engage, or only very lightly. It's not uncommon in my playstyle for missile troops and artillery to inflict enough casualties early to cause a complete enemy rout (mainly talking a minor settlement attack...where the defenders let one get away with this). Yet my infantry, not having entered and fought, still come away with "kills" in the post battle screen. Are these extras battle captives, perhaps?

Yup, I think this accounts for extra captives if you decide not to pursue yourself but let the game engine assign captures. This was the way it worked in S2 as well.

[GermanicWarlord]

I like to go heavy on the melee infanty and the melee cavalry, especially if I am a barbarian faction. Usually works for me.

[Hooahguy]

I like to go heavy on the melee infanty and the melee cavalry, especially if I am a barbarian faction. Usually works for me.

Yup, that generally works for me as well. Add in a bit of light cavalry to chase down routers or enemy or some artillery to hit them at long range and Im good.

[Slaists]

try out an army of balearic slingers (roman auxilia) ;)

[Kamakazi]

I opted in to patch 7 mostly to fix my mods lol. But since 7 came out pikes seem to have gotten nerfed. Before I could hold a ton of units back with 1-2 pike lines on defense now they are getting eaten alive by 1-2 opposing units. Anyone else experienced this? Oh and just to tell yall something im really happy about I held out against a 6000+ Egyptian army with only a 1 stack army and a garrison number I think at exactly 3000 but if you think about it that number is mob swelled etc. It was a crazy battle but I barely held on! Ill post pics if yall wanna see it

[Slaists]

I opted in to patch 7 mostly to fix my mods lol. But since 7 came out pikes seem to have gotten nerfed. Before I could hold a ton of units back with 1-2 pike lines on defense now they are getting eaten alive by 1-2 opposing units. Anyone else experienced this? Oh and just to tell yall something im really happy about I held out against a 6000+ Egyptian army with only a 1 stack army and a garrison number I think at exactly 3000 but if you think about it that number is mob swelled etc. It was a crazy battle but I barely held on! Ill post pics if yall wanna see it

With patch 7, pike soldiers have larger gaps between them so now attackers are able to get between the pikes. However, my pikes still hold pretty well. Their real nemesis is AI missile troops, not melee.

By 1-2 pike lines do you mean pikes 2 rows deep? That sounds insufficient. They need more rows to be able to hold.

[Myth]

Have your pike boxes be thicker - more men behind the first line to get the bracing bonus. Spreading pikes thin like butter on bread won't work.

[Sp4]

Have your pike boxes be thicker - more men behind the first line to get the bracing bonus. Spinning pikes thin like butter on bread won't work.

Have they changed pikes or are the Egyptians the only pike formation that have enough space between individual man that you can put like 3 units on top of each other and get something similar to what it was before/the Greeks have?

[Slaists]

Have they changed pikes or are the Egyptians the only pike formation that have enough space between individual man that you can put like 3 units on top of each other and get something similar to what it was before/the Greeks have?

They've changed all pikes that way (I think)

[Kamakazi]

With patch 7, pike soldiers have larger gaps between them so now attackers are able to get between the pikes. However, my pikes still hold pretty well. Their real nemesis is AI missile troops, not melee.

By 1-2 pike lines do you mean pikes 2 rows deep? That sounds insufficient. They need more rows to be able to hold.

No I don't let my pikes go less than 4 rows deep. They just get really messed up really fast. If they made a big gap in them what is the point of calling it a phalanx?

[Myth]

Well to be frank non levy pikes were a bit OP.

[Bramborough]

Regarding Pikemen:

I've run quite a few custom-battle tests this morning, on Patch 6 and then opted back into Patch 7 beta.

Pre-patch7beta, basic pikemen could stand up to just about anything. I pitted a line of 5 regular garden-variety pikemen (not thorax or high-end faction specific), with Thureos flank-protection units, against an equal-budget force of Roman plain legionaries (roughly equal cost/quality). The pikes of course won handily. Then I sent a superior force of Praetorians against the same line. The lower-cost/quality pikemen took more casualties, but held firm and still won.

With Patch7beta, however, things changed. Interestingly, I noticed little difference with pikemen-vs-legionaries. The pike line performed about as well as they had in the pre-7 test against these similar-quality troops. Against the superior Praetorian force, however, the pikemen suffered badly, took lots of casualties, and broke before the Praetorians did. I then lined up Royal Hellenic pikes against an equal-budget force of Praetorians. The Hellenics performed extremely well.

Based on this, my impression is that they've tweaked pike units so that they perform as expected against troops of similar quality, but no longer stand up as well to higher-quality opponents. Intelligently-used pike-centric armies continue to dominate under appropriate tactical conditions...as long as one continues to upgrade their quality. It is apparently no longer viable to just field basic pikemen and call it a day.

One thing I noticed is that with Patch7beta, Praetorians were able to close frontally with the basic pikemen units, and engage in melee. The usual gap created by the long sarissae collapsed. Pikemen could maintain this gap against legionaries, but not Praetorians. With Royal Hellenic pikes, however, they easily maintained this gap against Praetorians. So instead of some sort of morale tweak, somehow they've adjusted a melee unit's ability to overcome a lower-quality pike unit's standoff distance, but not an equal-quality pike unit's.

At least that's how it appears to me.

[Slaists]

Well, in frontal melee, pikes should be able to withstand just about anything. Missiles, flank and rear attacks: that's a different matter.

One undocumented change of patch 7 beta is that "pikes", the unit that is one level higher than levy pikes now have higher hit points than levy pikes. Before the patch 7, levy pikes had higher hit-points. Probably was a bug.

[Kamakazi]

I always use pike units better than levy... rarely do I have levy pikes.

[Myth]

Regarding Pikemen:

I've run quite a few custom-battle tests this morning, on Patch 6 and then opted back into Patch 7 beta.

Pre-patch7beta, basic pikemen could stand up to just about anything. I pitted a line of 5 regular garden-variety pikemen (not thorax or high-end faction specific), with Thureos flank-protection units, against an equal-budget force of Roman plain legionaries (roughly equal cost/quality). The pikes of course won handily. Then I sent a superior force of Praetorians against the same line. The lower-cost/quality pikemen took more casualties, but held firm and still won.

With Patch7beta, however, things changed. Interestingly, I noticed little difference with pikemen-vs-legionaries. The pike line performed about as well as they had in the pre-7 test against these similar-quality troops. Against the superior Praetorian force, however, the pikemen suffered badly, took lots of casualties, and broke before the Praetorians did. I then lined up Royal Hellenic pikes against an equal-budget force of Praetorians. The Hellenics performed extremely well.

Based on this, my impression is that they've tweaked pike units so that they perform as expected against troops of similar quality, but no longer stand up as well to higher-quality opponents. Intelligently-used pike-centric armies continue to dominate under appropriate tactical conditions...as long as one continues to upgrade their quality. It is apparently no longer viable to just field basic pikemen and call it a day.

One thing I noticed is that with Patch7beta, Praetorians were able to close frontally with the basic pikemen units, and engage in melee. The usual gap created by the long sarissae collapsed. Pikemen could maintain this gap against legionaries, but not Praetorians. With Royal Hellenic pikes, however, they easily maintained this gap against Praetorians. So instead of some sort of morale tweak, somehow they've adjusted a melee unit's ability to overcome a lower-quality pike unit's standoff distance, but not an equal-quality pike unit's.

At least that's how it appears to me.

Sounds about right. In Rome 1 you could charge Urban Cohorts right through Macedonian Royal Pikes and smash their faces in. My concern is with Sparta whom only get 20 Spartan Hoplites (which are equal tier to Thureos Pikes) and must otherwise use perioikoi pikes. Honestly Sparta needs some attention. Heroes of Sparta need to be more viable and the unit caps must be removed or at least tied to settlements having > 80% spartan culture.

[SupremeEmperor]

Balanced. The way I see it is if you go too heavy or to cheap, it won't work out well for you. A balanced Roman army wins the day for me.

[Merak]

Rome

Early game army: 12-14 units of Praetorians, 4-6 units of veites. 2 units of light cav for routers (mandatory).

Mid game: reduce veite count for Socii Equites Extraordinarii

Late Game (haven't even played that yet due to deleting my saves constantly): Mass pretorian guard (10 minimum), and an even mix of Aux. Cretan Archers and Aux. Eastern Cataphracts.


Northern Barbarians (Gaul/Suebi/Iceni)

A core of the best spear units I can field. Between 6 and 8 units.
Heavy sword infantry on the rear flanks - things like Oathsworn, Swormasters etc. Between 4 and 6 units (used to chop up enemy spear/phalanx units from the side and rear, and to dispatch cav units that get bogged down in melee).
Masses of shock cav and 2 units of light cav for the remaining slots, with 2-4 skirmisher troops if I lack funds/time to recruit more cav and melee.

Early armies get a lot more skirmisher support and only 2 light cav units to rout enemy skirmishers and kill fleeing armies.

Hellenistic factions (true greeks and successor states)

If true greek:

Masses of pikes (8+) as a core, 4-6 heavy hoplites on the flanks. 2 light cav to kill routers/route enemy skirmishers. Peltasts for support since hellenistic slingers are somewhat meh.

If successor state:

Pike core of 6-8 units. 2-4 heavy hoplites on the flanks. 2-4 heavy infantry as rear flanks. Rest is shock cav and 1-2 units of light cav to kill routers.

If early game army, replace cav units with peltasts/eastern slingers

As a nomad barbarian: 12-16 units of the best HA I can field (migh tmix in jav-cav if available) the rest is shock cav.


It's important for the factions who have niche units to make use of them correctly. Don't try to hold a line with berserkers, naked fanatics or painted ones. Use them to butcher enemies from the side/back. Don't chase down routers with heavy cavalry unless i'ts past the victory screen. Etc.

What would you guys be using as a balanced army for egypt? is myth suggestion good now on patch 8? Would the lack of missile units hurt me going in to Eastern provinces? i am about mid game /beginning (have teir 2/3 Buildings for my armys)

now i only play at normal so i guess that it would not hurt me using "wrong" setup, but it never hurt to ask for a good army setup :)

[Myth]

Under the new patch you will need at least 4 skirmisher units to soak up the missiles from those eastern slings and javelins. Some of the tribes in the Arabian Peninusla will mass slingers which can be devastating for low and mid tier infantry. Basically you must either have sufficient skirmisher support to counter the enemy skirmishers OR you must have sufficient cavalry support to just massacre the enemy skirmishers after the melee lines have engaged. The second approach requires you to close the battle lines fast but even then be prepared to be 1 or 2 infantry units behind.

As Egypt you have good pikes and heavy infantry, chariots and elephants. I think you will need skirmishers and you can use your speciality units to make short work of the enemy once it comes to melee. Chariots will also massacre skirmishers but you have to be careful if you try to attack them with spears guarding their backs. The AI seems pretty diligent about sending in melee units to protect its ranged core.

[sodoff]

I'm playing the romans atm and I'm churning out identical stacks composed of

1 general
2 Cavalry
6 legionaires / hastatii
4 velites
3 ballistae
4 Auxiliary spearmen

With this one composition, anything can be broken, field armies, towns, cities. I've yet to deal with the Horde of the steppes and their massed missile cavalry, but otherwise it's been going like a warm knife through butter, rarely losing more than 10 - 20% of my starting force, even with 2-1 odds in favor of the defenders behind massive walls. Best of all, it does not cost an arm and a leg to keep them paid and fed.

In general, the legions advance in front of my velites to soak up incoming missile fire. The velites are in turn flanked by Auxiliary spearmen to ward off any cavalry and usually placed nearer the ballistae to stop the AI interfering with them. The legions supported by velites will break just about anything in front of them. The auxiliary spears have the fast advance ability to skirt around the edges. The cavalry is there to scout and to make charges from behind once I get all of the opfor to commit to battle.

The legionares and hastatii are really tough, so extending them out to a depth of 4 will usually cover the enemy front entirely, if kept in formation, otherwise the line will crack and stuff gets into your velites, not good. Managing the ballistae is key to plowing ahead. At long range I target their swords and spears, when the armies clash, I shift the fire to their missile troops so as not to cause friendly fire. The line of legionaires will not hold forever so speed is important, out in the field it usually ends when my cavalry charges in.

The sieges are won by poking a hole in the wall between 2 towers, flattening the towers and then inducing the defenders to sit in the gap while my velites make them into pincushions. If the ballistae have a few rounds left after knocking down the wall and towers, enjoy surprising the enemy with a massed volley or two of explosives as they are thronging to get at the men in the gap. Gruesome!

[Buzghush]

I love technological weapons such as ballistas, onagers etc. I never go to battle without siege weapons. (early battles are exception)

So, when playing as Scythia, my army;

1 Horse Archer general
11 Armored -or better- horse archers
8 Ballistas

as Scythia you can easily get "extra ammunition" so, all of your ranged unit have 23 ammunition and that makes your missile units very effective.

When playing Sarmatia or Massagetae replace horse archers with shock cavalry and replace horse archer general with shock cavalry general and rest same Ballistas!