The Glorious American Justice system!
All Hail!
The ACLU has released a report on 3278 prisoners with lifetime sentences for nonviolent crimes. If you don't feel like reading, have a handy interactive graphic.
These scum of the earth have committed such heinous crimes as stealing a wallet, a truck or selling 10g of pot. BURN THEM AT THE STAKE!!
FYI Americans, this is why we Europeans consider you barbaric. There is no excuse for this kind of behaviour. None.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Three times your out, does it says what the previous crimes were. And most won't die in prison, life in prison isn't life in prison in America. I admit it is a really harsh system, but over here people who have a criminal record the size of the bill of rights get away with everything every time, at a certain point they should be removed from society. Where that point should be laying I don't know.
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
The life time/capita number (50/100.000) in the US is about 60% of the total prisoners in the Netherlands (82/100.000). And the total number per capita is 9 times higher in the US (743/100.000), giving them about 25% of the prisoners in the world.Originally Posted by Fragony
I think that counts as going overboard.
And 3 times you're out is probably too few times for those who turn around after starting to commit crimes. It may take 2 or more times before the descision to change really comes.
Last edited by Ironside; 11-20-2013 at 14:05. Reason: Wiki had 716, it appears to be 743 nowadays though.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
The US seriously needs to remove corporate/private financial interests from where they don't belong. You should never have a situation where it is in the financial interests of the prison authorities to keep prisoners for as long as possible. Where judges have shares in those organizations!
1/4 of the world's prison population in the 'leader of the free world', lol. More blacks in prison today than there were slaves in 1850. And some of them on the sites of former plantations! If I was born black in America I would be doing everything I could to leave. I don't see how anybody can think this is a healthy situation.
Never mind that US prisons look a lot meaner than British ones. How can putting people in a state of perpetual race war, where petty criminals have to join brutal gangs possibly help to prepare people for re-integrate into society?
Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 11-20-2013 at 13:16.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
As a raw number it's not impressive, but what is it, 2% of all life-sentences? That's a bit more troubling; should be more like 0.1% in a properly-functioning system.3278. Out of millions. Not impressive at all.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
In general I agree that many of these cases are terrible (though as Tincow pointed out, sometimes the definition of non-violent is stretched). It's a result, I think, of the whole 'tough on crime' attitude cultivated by both parties in the US for decades because that's what appeals to the voters. It's presented as a black and white issue that most voters don't see the wrong side of.
One thing I wanted to note, however, in response to a couple folks;
The privatized prison issue is a minor part of this overall. I think a bigger part (though not the main part) is the public employee unions, specifically those like the California Prison Guards Union:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3894490.html
http://ordinary-gentlemen.com/blog/2...-prison-system
http://www.againstcronycapitalism.or...on-population/
http://www.policymic.com/articles/41...vert-democracy
These are not corporate interests, nor should they be labeled as such. To say the unions are becoming corporate because they support more people in prison is disingenuous to me. It seems like a view that doesn't want to accept that unions can do wrong, or rather that 'unionism' or what have you is fundamentally good, while 'corporatism' is fundamentally bad.
The labels are important because you have to correctly identify the problem in order to solve it.
I think, of those tissues you stated, only the war on drugs is a main driver for an increasingly authoritarian state.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Life in jail for three counts of theft doesn't strike you as authoritarian? Seriously?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
The USA is bigger. I am getting a bit tired of the US-bashing that mostly seems to come from Scandinavian countries. Oh so better. No you arent't, you are just being jerks. That arrogance doesn't look good on you. Especially since the rape-statistics of your lands of unicorns and rainbows would shame any third world country. Best to shut up before you point any fingers.
Last edited by Fragony; 11-20-2013 at 15:03.
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
China is 4 times bigger. And is a dictorship. And has less prisoners. If you combine the prisoners and ‘detention centres’, then you get a similar size in numbers. So that's 1/4 of the number, with about 30% blatant political prisoners. UK is a western European anomaly with about 150.
It's not a US vs Scandinavia on this one, it's US stands out a lot compared to the rest of the world (presumably due to the war on drugs). Globally, the US is more normal on tax policies, gun control and police abuse/SWAT teams than on this.
Rape statistics contains an actual increase, but is also mostly a mixture of increased reporting (that or those immigrants doesn't ever do assult rapes) and changes in what constitutes rape instead of severe sexual harasment.
Last edited by Ironside; 11-20-2013 at 19:06.
We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?
Project PYRRHO, Specimen 46, Vat 7
Activity Recorded M.Y. 2302.22467
TERMINATION OF SPECIMEN ADVISED
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
3278. Out of millions. Not impressive at all.
Okay. No problem.FYI Americans, this is why we Europeans consider you barbaric. There is no excuse for this kind of behaviour. None.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Ah, good ol' mindless american nationalism...
On some level it's good to know that it's not just some europeans who are stuck in a 1930's mindset, the same attitude exists over the pond as well.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
And THAT is really bad. That is beyond being offensive, and I will just take it before our American posters do. How dare you, you Norwegians are known for euganics,nuntill 19300 and you still think you can judge others. You killed children that didn't have Nordic features.
That's your country. The country that could just as well could have organised a parade should the nazi's invade them another time, so easy
Last edited by Fragony; 11-20-2013 at 16:03.
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Do you honestly believe I have warm feelings for my country, or take any pride in my nation whatsoever, Fragolini?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
I just suspect some pride misgiven horrie. Scandinavians can really be jerks, and their confidence that they are holding the light is annoying.
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
What's nationalism to some is just common sense to others. American justice is set up by us exclusively for us. We're not asking you to adopt our system, even though your treatment of Breivik is hair raising to many people here. Your country, your rules. Our country, our rules. Think what you will of this, it's not gonna matter to the way we do things here.
America isn't Europe. America isn't trying to be Europe or even be like Europe. Is that really so unsettling for the Europeans?
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Mindless nationalisms trademark #2:
Whenever someone from "the outside" offers a point of view, he's trying to force you to change. There can be no other purpose to his despicable attacks of the One Truth(which is "we're the best and you suck").
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
There's a difference between offering a point of view and repeating that point of view ad nauseum at every opportunity. You think America is backward and barbaric. Okay, got it. We've heard you and we don't care. Can we talk about something else now?
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Not for me.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Interesting note: since prisons are so overcrowded, violent criminals are often remanded to local jails and just shuffled around from place to place until they can be fitted somewhere more long-term. So there are increased opportunities for this type to rub shoulders with 'lesser' criminals over extended periods.
Question: should the organization of the prison-system be changed (after everything is done with reducing overcrowding and rewriting the penal code on personal use of drugs/controlled substances) so that highly-recidivistic misdemeanants+minor felons are concentrated together in prisons (which also raises the question of whether misdemeanants should serve their sentences in jails in all cases) to isolate them from the rest of the short-sentence inmates? That is, if prisons are going to be 'crime schools', then maybe we should implicitly designate specific units of the system as such, rather than allowing the diffusion of criminal norms and techniques throughout the entire incarcerated population.
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
The (semi) privatizing of the penal system, declaring wars on social problems and the fallout from political blundering, and these human rights abusing three strike laws all lead to the US becoming an authoritarian police state.
If you havin' skyrim problems I feel bad for you son.. I dodged 99 arrows but my knee took one.
VENI, VIDI, NATES CALCE CONCIDI
I came, I saw, I kicked ass
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
How would you define an authoritarian police state? Specifically, what attributes would make a state authoritarian, and what attributes would classify it as a police state?
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
One that has secret courts and spies on all its citizens foreign and a lot of their domestic communications would be one...
Oh that's another thread...
USA can do its own things in its own country. Just don't go touting 'We are the leaders of the free world' without the stats to back 'em up like voter particaption, life span, access to health, access to representation etc
If you can stop spouting that the POTUS is the leader of the free world then maybe the Vikings will stop stating the obvious that you aren't.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
What exactly makes one a leader of the free world? And if we're not the leader, then who is? Not that leadership is a privilege or anything like that. It's a burden. I'd be happy to see us turn back to isolationism if that was a viable option, but alas. We're the leader alright, but all we have to show for it is a group of ungrateful do-nothing "allies" with the notable exception of the Brits. Leadership is overrated at least as far as its benefits go.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Swords are not ploughs.
How good a life all the citizens lead within a country determines leadership within the free world. Not how many people can be stomped on.
Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
Pape for global overlord!!
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
I agree. But I don't think unions acting as such are necessarily acting 'corporate' in that situation.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
What? Unions don't lobby? How is there lobbying different from the lobbying other unions do (in terms of function if not results)?
Other unions don't go to the hilt to prevent people from being fired? You talk about cooperation with the 'corporate' agenda (buying ammo & gear, etc., I assume), but I think that's minor overall.Police unions are not so much unions as groups that seek to turn a delicate and important task like law enforcement into a self-perpetuating haven for unfirable incompetents with a power fetish. Unlike almost every other Union, their agenda is in line with a corporate agenda, minus the occasional pay squabble.
If you're talking about prison guard unions and cooperation with private prisons to push for more prisons & more prisoners, I still don't think that makes those unions corporate. Lots of unions have interests aligned with corporate interests; machinists unions for Boeing want more pork bills from the govt for building planes, construction unions want more money for infrastructure, dockworkers unions want more money for building up ports and increasing trade, etc.
Oh, certainly.True police reform would hurt police unions HARD.
Come on now;
I said it wasn't a cause for the state becoming increasingly authoritarian. It's more a result of the state becoming more authoritarian, I would say. The related cause for the whole 3 strikes thing would be the attitudes on crime and criminals that led to those laws being passed.
CR
Ja Mata, Tosa.
The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
Well, these days it's more about keeping our head above the water, so to speak. Many of our harbors are overdue for much-needed maintenance.
At least the Harbor Fund has more money than the poor Waterways Fund. I think it was ~$120 billion we were losing yearly due to our ancient canals? Those things ought to have undergone major improvement before most of us were born! Let's go for the Kallanai limit, I suppose?
Vitiate Man.
History repeats the old conceits
The glib replies, the same defeats
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
@Crazed Rabbit: Interesting links, I'll give them a more thorough read tomorrow - its an angle I never thought about before.
Although like you said to GC, there are probably wider trends which led to the three strikes law. I would hazard to guess that sensationalist media, urbanisation, and the development of a crime-dependent underclass has a lot to do with it.
At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
the links you posted, they've deleted/censored it!! i think now you are a threat! watch your back because USA has many terrorists! (you call it agents - Like Brenus!)
after that your mind and intelligences will grower and will discover more of USA POLITICAL System !!
i suggest you join http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_%28group%29 to discover better & more, and create another CONQUER WALL STREET! or maybe CAPITOL HALL !
download their movies/documentaries or email them! they will show you how is the IMPERIALIST USA !
ah....i said and linked this, so you dont call me conspiracy theorist! or you may again!.......
ah i know im not Julian Asange or...... or US & UK Government! and all World Imperialistical Systems im the greater danger ! leave Pannonian & HoreTore !!
Last edited by Empire*Of*Media; 12-11-2013 at 13:36.
Re: The Glorious American Justice system!
I'll start by calling you "an incoherent writer". The links still work perfectly, so I might throw out a "conspiracy theorist" as well.
And seriously, join anonymous...?
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
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