Implications of path length CTD discovery

[moonburn]

is the fix immplementable into eb1 or does it only work for eb2 ?

good work ofc if you can handle the white map bug or the end of batles crash i think 95% of all the major bugs in the game are finally solved

Edit: Topic broken out from the Twitter discussion - Kull

[Kull]

is the fix immplementable into eb1 or does it only work for eb2 ?

good work ofc if you can handle the white map bug or the end of batles crash i think 95% of all the major bugs in the game are finally solved

Here's the key - path lengths in excess of 127 characters will cause CTDs, no matter WHAT GAME you are playing. If you have a long paths in EB1, they'll cause crashes too. Be ruthless in your naming conventions, and this might solve problems in many areas. C:\EB2 in comparison to C:\Program Files (x86)\Medieval II Total War\ is 3 characters compared to 45. That buys you a lot of space if games and/or mods haven't been judicious in their naming conventions. We will be taking a wholesale look at this in EB2 (potentially there are many other CTDs that hitherto seemed random, but have this as their basis), but individual players can do their part by minimizing the length of their game directory names.

[LusitanianWolf]

After many years, Siege CTD bug finally solved thanks to efforts of makanyane, bovi, & Kull. Huge! - The EB Team

Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's the key - path lengths in excess of 127 characters will cause CTDs, no matter WHAT GAME you are playing. If you have a long paths in EB1, they'll cause crashes too. Be ruthless in your naming conventions, and this might solve problems in many areas. C:\EB2 in comparison to C:\Program Files (x86)\Medieval II Total War\ is 3 characters compared to 45. That buys you a lot of space if games and/or mods haven't been judicious in their naming conventions. We will be taking a wholesale look at this in EB2 (potentially there are many other CTDs that hitherto seemed random, but have this as their basis), but individual players can do their part by minimizing the length of their game directory names.

That seems way just to simple....
My EB1 as allways been very unstable, I will surelly try that!

[Kull]

That seems way just to simple....
My EB1 as allways been very unstable, I will surelly try that!

It does, doesn't it? Several of us were skimming around the edges on this, but @bovi (huge props) made the critical connection. This isn't the thread for substantive discussions on the matter, but I want you guys to recognize how key this is, so I'll violate that rule this once:

But note that the full path to the triarii officer texture (129) is above 127, which is a magic number in computing as it is the maximum number you can represent with 7 bits.

Emphasis added. And that's it in a nutshell. Crazy simple, HUGE stability impact. I haven't felt better about where we are with EB2 in......ever.

[LusitanianWolf]

It does, doesn't it? Several of us were skimming around the edges on this, but @bovi (huge props) made the critical connection. This isn't the thread for substantive discussions on the matter, but I want you guys to recognize how key this is, so I'll violate that rule this once:



Emphasis added. And that's it in a nutshell. Crazy simple, HUGE stability impact. I haven't felt better about where we are with EB2 in......ever.

Crazy indeed! Deserving of epic sized props!!!

[BroskiDerpman]

May I share this information?

[Moros]

May I share this information?

Obviously.

[BroskiDerpman]

Ok, this is of great use to some people who keep getting errors and such. I have always installed to more direct places so this explains why I never really get CTDs in many mods.

[Kull]

Ok, this is of great use to some people who keep getting errors and such. I have always installed to more direct places so this explains why I never really get CTDs in many mods.

It should be noted that bovi is a lot more cautious with respect to how widespread this impact could be. He believes the tie is something that CA hardcoded into the Mediterranean climate, and thus the ramifications are much more limited. I think he's technically correct in the instance of this particular bug, but to me this just begs the question of how many similar hardcoded relationships are buried somewhere in the CA source code?

If we know path lengths lead to CTDs in one area (where there is a high probability they will appear, such as in sieges), I'm willing to be they may exist elsewhere where the path-length is only occasionally an issue, and thus the resulting CTDs appear to be much more "random". And if a short path can eliminate the chance of them occurring, why not take that simple step?

[antisocialmunky]

Wow, amazingly nice find EB.

[fallen851]

I am a bit confused. My EB1 is installed under: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB which is clearly less than 127 characters.

However, let's say I try to access settlement underlays: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\settlement_plans\underlays. This is 56 characters, do extra characters (\Data\settlement_plans\underlays) beyond EB count? Seems like they do, just want to clarify.

Also does the file the game is trying to access count as well? For instance: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\models_unit\TEXTURES\hellenistic\ebhellenistic_cavalry_hetairoi_kataphraktoi_romans_brut ii_stefan25.TGA is 138 characters, would that cause instability?

Thanks for any and all information. Since I read this, I've shortened my install path to C:\Games\RTW\EB, but will shorten it further if files the game is trying to access count as well.

is the fix immplementable into eb1 or does it only work for eb2 ?

good work ofc if you can handle the white map bug or the end of batles crash i think 95% of all the major bugs in the game are finally solved

Edit: Topic broken out from the Twitter discussion - Kull

The quote fix resolved the end of battle crashes entirely in EB1 At least for me (and many others). The fix to open up your quotes.txt file under EB/Data/text/ and replace everything in it with this:

¬ Localisation file for transition screen quotes
¬ Lines in brackets are not to be translated

{Quote_1}
I swear that so soon as age will permit I will use fire and steel to arrest the destiny of Rome.
{Author_1}
Hannibal

Then find your descr_quotes_lookup.text and replace everything inside it with this:

Quote_1
Author_1

This makes the game reference only one quote, and makes it incredibly stable when ending battles in my experience (obviously you can change the quote to whatever quote you want to use). No more waiting for the music to be done before leaving a battle, or waiting 10 second after a battle and crossing my fingers the game doesn't crash...

[moonburn]

thanks alot to all that have helped once i get a new laptop i will try it again my kart hadast campaigns tend to never be finished due to a few cities in north afrika that keep getting me crashes

[Kull]

I am a bit confused. My EB1 is installed under: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB which is clearly less than 127 characters.

However, let's say I try to access settlement underlays: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\settlement_plans\underlays. This is 56 characters, do extra characters (\Data\settlement_plans\underlays) beyond EB count? Seems like they do, just want to clarify.

Yes, it would be the full path.......

Also does the file the game is trying to access count as well? For instance: C:\Games\Rome - Total War\EB\Data\models_unit\TEXTURES\hellenistic\ebhellenistic_cavalry_hetairoi_kataphraktoi_romans_brut ii_stefan25.TGA is 138 characters, would that cause instability?

.......including the entire file name (with suffix).

To repeat my earlier caveat, we don't KNOW that this affects games outside of M2TW, although it seems (to me anyway) to be a plausible possibility.

[fallen851]

Wow, it includes file names...

As I pointed out, there are some really long file names in EB1.

C:\EB it is.

[Kull]

Bovi and I were discussing this with makanyane in the TWC thread that finally led to this breakthrough, and her theory is it's related to certain climates, specifically:

that's starting to sound like it's ones which didn't start out having 'winter' in descr_climates.txt

Does RTW (and thus EB1) have the same file, and does it include some climates that have winter and others that don't? Why yes, yes it does. Again, that doesn't mean there's a definitive link. But am I changing my directory to C:\EB1? Why yes, yes I am.

[LusitanianWolf]

I've changed mine to D:/EB (it was crazy huge before) and while I haven't played much since, at first glance it seems much more stable now (without needing to resort to other tricks I did before to avoid CTDs all the time)!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ca Putt]

Ha, and here I am playing EB via C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common....

I feel dumb now :D

So how do I go about this? should I just install EB to C:\EB instead of the RTW folder?

[LusitanianWolf]

Ha, and here I am playing EB via C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common....

I feel dumb now :D

So how do I go about this? should I just install EB to C:\EB instead of the RTW folder?

No need to reinstall, just move your RTW folder to C:/ and rename it EB. And then change the destination on the Single Player and Multi Player shortcuts.

[Ca Putt]

does not seem to work with steam :/

[I Am Herenow]

Edit

[Ca Putt]

Thanks but no, I actually outsourced some of my games onto SD cards that way, but it basically only takes "Program Files (x86)" out of the equasion. It's a start but the "\Steam\SteamApps\common" persists.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Just to confirm that this simple advice makes a difference on EB1. I had been unable to move on from a battle during a turn change at Sparta. I changed the path to simply EB and the battle doesn't CTD anymore. I could also only auto-resolve battles at Tolosa previously, but can now fight battles there without CTDs.

Such a simple thing, makes a huge difference to the stability (and enjoyment) of the game. Big, big reps to bovi