Kalashnikov Dead

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Sure I don't. What does it matter that he admitted it himself.

Frags:

There is at least one source claiming that he denied such. This wiki suggests that the AK-47 inherited features from the M1 Garand and the Remington 8 (an antecedent of the BAR) as well as using a gas-operated system akin to that of the STG-44, but also akin to that of the SVT-38, a soviet automatic rifle that the Germans encountered (and snatched and used against the former owners). Implying that he "stole" the design is a little silly -- when enough features/ideas are taken from different places it's called research.

[Kadagar_AV]

Now now, Seamus. It's rude to confuse Frags with this whole knowledge thingy.

[Fragony]

Frags:

There is at least one source claiming that he denied such. This wiki suggests that the AK-47 inherited features from the M1 Garand and the Remington 8 (an antecedent of the BAR) as well as using a gas-operated system akin to that of the STG-44, but also akin to that of the SVT-38, a soviet automatic rifle that the Germans encountered (and snatched and used against the former owners). Implying that he "stole" the design is a little silly -- when enough features/ideas are taken from different places it's called research.

The AK47 was build in cooperation with the Germans who made the Sturmgewehr 44. It isn't the revolutionary design people take it for. It's an evolutionary build based on the Sturmgewehr 44.

He admitted this, you know better than the man himself?

@Kadagar_AV, stop falling in love with me, I said no and I mean it. I am not into that.

[Sarmatian]

The AK47 was build in cooperation with the Germans who made the Sturmgewehr 44. It isn't the revolutionary design people take it for. It's an evolutionary build based on the Sturmgewehr 44.

He admitted this, you know better than the man himself?

Just because rifles look alike externally doesn't mean that they use same mechanisms internally. The rifle PJ mentioned, vz.58 looks almost exactly the same as AK-47 but it's totally different inside.

[Fragony]

Just because rifles look alike externally doesn't mean that they use same mechanisms internally. The rifle PJ mentioned, vz.58 looks almost exactly the same as AK-47 but it's totally different inside.

Ffs he even admitted it. The AK47 was developed in cooperation with Meinfeld who developed the Stg44 and was flown into Russia after the war. Just like the USA did fly out german scientists on their parts. Germans may have their mistakes but they sure are excellent engineers.

[Sarmatian]

Ffs he even admitted it. The AK47 was developed in cooperation with Meinfeld who developed the Stg44 and was flown into Russia after the war. Just like the USA did fly out german scientists on their parts. Germans may have their mistakes but they sure are excellent engineers.

It. Is. A. Different. Rifle! Simple as that.

Wherever you read about that, it was bollox.

[Husar]

Fragony's post here is the third link on Google when you search for "Meinfeld AK-47", so there goes my attempt to find anything about that...

What I can find are theories about Hugo Schmeisser having developed the rifle instead, the Moscow Times calls it a fringe theory however, while the only sources claiming that Kalashnikov admitted that Schmeisser did it are apparently blogs, like this one.

Of course both sides have an agenda, some people hate the soviets and do not want to attribute such a wonderful rifle to them or they just love the Nazis so much that they do not think Russians were capable of coming up with anything decent (which is wrong of course). On the other hand the Russians wouldn't just admit if a German engineer helped design their iconic rifle just as Americans like to forget that they needed German technologies to get to the moon and to break the sound barrier.

Quite frankly I don't think it's important, I find it far more debatable and worthy of debate whether the development of that rifle or any other weapon is a good thing that ensures peace or makes one indirectly responsible for all the deaths this weapon causes. To me this doesn't seem really clear cut. Unless one considers the unlikely option that all humans would stop developing weapons, someone will always make the tools to kill people anyway, so why wouldn't he try to give his people an edge? What seems far less moral is giving them to shady people for money but even that seems inevitable.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Fragony's post here is the third link on Google when you search for "Meinfeld AK-47", so there goes my attempt to find anything about that...

What I can find are theories about Hugo Schmeisser having developed the rifle instead, the Moscow Times calls it a fringe theory however, while the only sources claiming that Kalashnikov admitted that Schmeisser did it are apparently blogs, like this one.

Of course both sides have an agenda, some people hate the soviets and do not want to attribute such a wonderful rifle to them or they just love the Nazis so much that they do not think Russians were capable of coming up with anything decent (which is wrong of course). On the other hand the Russians wouldn't just admit if a German engineer helped design their iconic rifle just as Americans like to forget that they needed German technologies to get to the moon and to break the sound barrier.

Quite frankly I don't think it's important, I find it far more debatable and worthy of debate whether the development of that rifle or any other weapon is a good thing that ensures peace or makes one indirectly responsible for all the deaths this weapon causes. To me this doesn't seem really clear cut. Unless one considers the unlikely option that all humans would stop developing weapons, someone will always make the tools to kill people anyway, so why wouldn't he try to give his people an edge? What seems far less moral is giving them to shady people for money but even that seems inevitable.

I thought we stole most of our sound barrier stuff from the Brits, just like we adopted their implosion calculations for Fat Man. The rest of the Moon program, as you rightly note, was Werner and crowd -- who actually bothered to read Goddard, unlike most of the U.S. establishment prior to the V2.

Frags:

There are simply too many antecedent concepts from too many directions, ALL of which went into Kalash's development of the AK-47. Significant direct German involvement is unlikely because of timing (indirect plenty of course based on captures). While the weapon was adopted in 1947, that was following nearly 2.5 years of development, trials, and provings. German weapons design was certainly one influence, but by no means the only one.

[Fragony]

It. Is. A. Different. Rifle! Simple as that.

Wherever you read about that, it was bollox.

Just not exactly the same