Kalashnikov Dead

[PanzerJaeger]

5.56, particularly in its original American 55gr M193 form, actually causes far more damage to the human body within normal combat ranges than 7.62 due to fragmentation. Not so, however, with the current 62gr rounds being fired out of such short barrels. The US had a very potent weapon in the original M16, but has neutered it quite a bit over the years.

[Husar]

5.56, particularly in its original American 55gr M193 form, actually causes far more damage to the human body within normal combat ranges than 7.62 due to fragmentation. Not so, however, with the current 62gr rounds being fired out of such short barrels. The US had a very potent weapon in the original M16, but has neutered it quite a bit over the years.

You've explained this exhaustively before, in a thread where Vuk said everybody in the US military should use 7.62 and train to be a marksman on US Marines standard. I wonder why we have to go over this again. Is HoreTore the new Vuk?

This thread is also related.

[Pannonian]

That's all very well Seamus, but what are the ballistics of swinging a two handed ax one handed whilst firing a 5.56 assault rifle held in the other?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That's all very well Seamus, but what are the ballistics of swinging a two handed ax one handed whilst firing a 5.56 assault rifle held in the other?

Actually, as Call of Duty teaches us, only an idiot brings anything aside from a knife to a gunfight.

[Husar]

Actually, as Call of Duty teaches us, only an idiot brings anything aside from a knife to a gunfight.

I remember dual Glock 18s being the best combination in Modern Warfare 2 (sprayed a lot of bullets all over the place in a very short time), in addition to the mighty knife of course. Don't know about nowadays as this was the second and last game of the series that I bought. I've always wondered why no military equips soldiers with Dual Glock 18s nowadays, they're clearly the superior choice in urban warfare. Always remember to jump and duck hastily left and right while you fire them.

[HoreTore]

Is HoreTore the new Vuk?

Nope.

Do you honestly think I argue in favour of military effectiveness? I argue for increased recoil solely based on the fact that recoil is cool.

[Sarmatian]

And it's all a moot point, since Norway collaborates...

[Husar]

Do you honestly think I argue in favour of military effectiveness?

Yes. I would never say something I do not really mean because I'm a German.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

5.56, particularly in its original American 55gr M193 form, actually causes far more damage to the human body within normal combat ranges than 7.62 due to fragmentation. Not so, however, with the current 62gr rounds being fired out of such short barrels. The US had a very potent weapon in the original M16, but has neutered it quite a bit over the years.

The major advantage of the 7.62 was range - and as noted the M-16 has had it's wings clipped for valid reasons.

Any enemy, even the most ruthless, has to expend more time on a wounded soldier than a dead one.

Aside from that - 5.56 allows for more ammo but does tend to jamm more in icy conditions for reasons I'm not clear on.

[Kadagar_AV]

The major advantage of the 7.62 was range - and as noted the M-16 has had it's wings clipped for valid reasons.

Any enemy, even the most ruthless, has to expend more time on a wounded soldier than a dead one.

Aside from that - 5.56 allows for more ammo but does tend to jamm more in icy conditions for reasons I'm not clear on.

Swedish army use AK5, with 5,56 ammo. I can assure you it is fully functional in even extreme cold. We were out, 500 guys with lots of shooting, in -37 to -45 degrees Celsius.

Weapons worked great..

Here, only our special trained urban warfare regiments use 7,62.. As well as some sharpshooters (for specific tasks).

If swedish arctic rangers feel comfortable with 5,56.. That should count for something..

[Kadagar_AV]

I think the thing with the 5,56 and cold is due to USAnian mag's were made of a plastic that didn't do to well in the cold...

I just now remembered a officer telling me about it more than a decade ago. You need cold steel mags up where I fight, once you have those it really isnt an issue...

But let's remember USAnian troops are equipped by the lowest bidder... Swedish arctic rangers are equipped by the state. Therefore, I guess, plastic vs steel.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I think the thing with the 5,56 and cold is due to USAnian mag's were made of a plastic that didn't do to well in the cold...

I just now remembered a officer telling me about it more than a decade ago. You need cold steel mags up where I fight, once you have those it really isnt an issue...

But let's remember USAnian troops are equipped by the lowest bidder... Swedish arctic rangers are equipped by the state. Therefore, I guess, plastic vs steel.

The new composites (graphite fiber I think) handle it just fine. The first few years of M-16s did have a lot of problems resulting from the characteristics of the early bakelite plastics though.

[Fragony]

Logical would be that carbonites is more versatile as iron shrinks in low temperatures and expands in higher ones. Keep in mind that I am no expert in this, so don't be cruel to me if I got that wrong.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I believer there were some issues with 5.56 barrels and shrinkage too - something to do with a difference in rifling.

*shrug*

Anyway - M-16 kinda sucks - we get it.

[Kadagar_AV]

Blame the weapon system or nation funding it, not the ammo...

Yes 5,56 worked damn bad in cold climates, for USAnian troops with weapons produced by the lowest bidder.

Swedish soldiers serving our King have had absolute nil such issues.

What Seamus said is right, USA used plastics for mags.

I must honestly say I was way impressed with the Swedish equipment we had. Not many forces in the world can be on 100% combat effectiveness in -47 degrees Celsius.

Such small solutions as having gloves with mittens on top, mittens having the ability to be folded back half way so we had the (gloved) fingers free to shoot, meant we could have warm fingers holding the trigger. I noticed LOADS of such small practical details that is worth life and death in a real situation :)