When did the Total War AI grew a brain ?

[Ars Moriendi]

Did the AI got smarter recently, or am I just witnessing some quasi-random actions that just happened to look intelligent ?
I'm only just starting my 2nd campaign in R2, so my questions might seem dumb for those of you more experienced.

Why am I asking this ? Well, I've been playing TW games for more than a decade, and I know the campaign AI / diplomacy had never been very smart. But I just went through a few surprising turns where the AI acted with an unexpected amount of common sense.

Campaign report below.

* * *



I'm playing the Romans (normal diff. + Divide et Impera mod). Solved the Etruscan problem quickly, then went on looking for a casus belli against the Cisalpine gauls, on the quest to unify the peninsula. The Veneti where easy : they where a little too friendly towards the late Etruscans, so I simply DoW and take Patavium. The Insubres and Liguri are at war, so I take sides with Genua and march on Medhlanum. As for political preparation, I sign treaties (trade and non agression) with everyone on the other side of the Alps, securing my (future) northern border.

Now it gets interesting :

First, the Insubres sue for peace, as soon as I step on their lands, not even attacking them yet. With an 8500(!) cash offer. Now, if I'd never played TW before, this would seem normal considering the balance of power. But I'm so accustomed to the usually ridiculous behaviour from the past games, I was truly shocked. What, no more one-last-province suicidal faction which goes "Tremble before us ! Give us all your gold and become our vassal and we'll let you live !" - against a 30-province empire ??? And where's the obstinate refusal of peace ? They actually act as if survival matters, now ?

They almost convinced me, too. But I really want full Cisalpina, and I'm making too much money anyway (apparently, DeI doesn't raise the difficulty level as advertised - maybe I should restart on Hard or higher).

Then, the Liguri get tricky : they stop their marching army at the limit of the reinforcement zone. Exactly what I would've done : leaving the others to fight the difficult part then stepping in to mop the remains. So, no allies (read : cannon fodder) for the assault. I must lay siege.

Two turns later, the Insubres sally and lose the battle in the field. The town isn't taken yet, but they only have a few men left so I just click assault as soon as AI turn finishes. And surprise : I'm greeted with a confirmation message : "Are you sure you want to declare war ?" or something like that.
What !? I'm already at war with them, nearly won too.
Well, no.
Apparently, during their turn, the few remaining Insubres went political and created the newly born "Celtic confederation". Including some of my new friends north of the Alps, with which I have just signed various treaties.

Dilemma : do I give up on Cisalpina ? or do I risk going to war against an alliance stronger than me (and also get a stain on my diplomatic record) ?


Shock : the AI has been acting as if the I in AI is for real.

Is it just a glitch, or is this happening regularly ?

[Myth]

Hmmm.... Never had such an offer for peace. But the confederation thing is normal. I advise you to just DOW them and continue massacring the confederation. Don't let them get Oathsworn. As it is right now your troops will outperform their spear infantry greatly.

[Ars Moriendi]

I knew about the confederation thing, it happened a few times during my previous campaign, but didn't change much in the course of events.
What was different and surprising now : the AI had perfect timing and choice of allies to confederate. With a single move the Insubres went from nearly extinct to "not wise to attack us, Roman !". If I want to attack them now, it would mean going to war against five celtic tribes at once, and ruining my reputation since I already have recent treaties with them.

About outperforming the gauls - yes, hastati will chew their low level infantry, but the tribes tend to have better missile troops and enough cavalry to wreak havoc on my flanks. I don't have (yet) access to cavalry or spearmen. That's what I was hoping to achieve in Cisalpina : using it as a base to recruit celtic auxilia for those roles. I might win, but it won't be easy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining when situations like this arise - it makes for a far more interesting campaign. I just hope for more like this.

[This thread is basically me saying I'm kinda starting to like this game, as it was a bit disspointing at first. Hey, I can even fight in rain now !]

[Myth]

Just use Pretorians en masse with veite support and 4-6 units of Socii Equites Extraordinarii. All recruitable within 15 turns of campaign start.

[fallen851]

Just use Pretorians en masse with veite support and 4-6 units of Socii Equites Extraordinarii. All recruitable within 15 turns of campaign start.

That is perhaps the one area that RTW was more historically accurate than R2TW, you couldn't get Marian troops so early in RTW. I really dislike the R2TW tech tree for that reason.

[BroskiDerpman]

Dang in only 15 years you can mass recruit an elite palace unit along with a unit (Socii Equites Extraordinarii) that didn't exist anymore when said elite palace soldiers started to exist in a somewhat slow manner.

Mind I say.

[Sp4]

[This thread is basically me saying I'm kinda starting to like this game, as it was a bit disspointing at first. Hey, I can even fight in rain now !]

Just use Pretorians en masse with veite support and 4-6 units of Socii Equites Extraordinarii. All recruitable within 15 turns of campaign start.

Hey, you are really starting to like this game, but don't worry, Myth has the perfect tip for you to find it boring again.

[Ars Moriendi]

15 turns to Pretorians ? I don't think that's possible with Divide et Impera.
And even if it were, I'd like to play more historically and get some mileage out of my hastati before replacing them.
I just had a few entertaining battles with "triplex acies" style manipular armies, think I'll stick with them for a while.

EDIT : @Sp4 - all help is welcome, but it doesn't mean I'll follow any advice if it conflicts with my play style, so don't worry, I won't get bored (too) soon .

[Slaists]

id recommend dropping the mod and trying vanilla on vh/legendary. Mods are not balanced for the latest patches yet

[Sp4]

DeI is not very balanced and never has been. I don't think that was the idea behind it anyways. It does look very pretty though.

[Ars Moriendi]

What do you mean by "not balanced" ?

If you're talking about my initial statement about making too much money - I changed my mind about that. There's an optional submod which I haven't installed at first which does some economy adjustments. Also, I played a few more turns since starting this thread and I realised that was making so much $$$ because I was focusing on production/trade but ignoring food and order effects. I learned my lesson after losing half my armies to starvation and having to demolish / convert a few buildings. Still a beginner here.

I'm not using DeI just for the cosmetic improvements - it's the other features that bought me in (4 seasons, better traits & resources, slower battles, etc.).

[Sp4]

Ah.. yes balanced.. hmm I really have no idea what balanced is supposed to mean in a singleplayer game. I guess does not make certain things overpowered is a better thing to say.

Like Rome in the vanilla game, that's overpowered, unbalanced, whatever and I don't think they have spent an awful lot of time making sure they did not make another Rome somewhere with this mod. I am glad that it does not add new units. I'm sick and tired of mods that add elite sword infantry to Sparta ^^

[Myth]

Ah.. yes balanced.. hmm I really have no idea what balanced is supposed to mean in a singleplayer game. I guess does not make certain things overpowered is a better thing to say.

Like Rome in the vanilla game, that's overpowered, unbalanced, whatever and I don't think they have spent an awful lot of time making sure they did not make another Rome somewhere with this mod. I am glad that it does not add new units. I'm sick and tired of mods that add elite sword infantry to Sparta ^^

But Sparta actually needs them! Have you tried Sparta in a vanilla game? Most boring stuff ever coupled with annoying unit limitations which are AFAIK only for the Sparta faction.

[BroskiDerpman]

I got an idea for that.

Buff every Spartan hoplite's holding power, add some auxiliary units for them to recruit, adjust limits on Heroes of Sparta, rename Heroes of Sparta to something less superman like, buff heroes of Sparta, ta-da better roster for Sparta which focuses on holding power of pikes plus Hoplites, then mercenaries add variety and supplements roster, the lower tier units bulk up holding power.

[Sp4]

But Sparta actually needs them! Have you tried Sparta in a vanilla game? Most boring stuff ever coupled with annoying unit limitations which are AFAIK only for the Sparta faction.

Their roster is boring but not weak.

[Myth]

Their roster is boring but not weak.

Spartan pikes (post pike nerf) are mid-tier pike units. The only good thing about them is their excellent morale come end-game. They are still vastly inferior to Food Compaions, Silver Shields and whatever the Egyptian elite pike unit was named. Spartan hoplites are good but not better than Shieldbearers (which other hellenistic factions get). Again, they will have better morale than the other elite hoplites, but they are also limited (I think you can have at most 20 of them or something).

Royal Spartans are indeed better than Shieldbearers but they are also very limited. I think the limit was 4 units total (excluding GB units).

Heroes of Sparta are inferior to Royal Spartans and have fewer men per unit than them. They are also capped at 2 or 4 units total. Which makes them completely worthless.

[Crazycube]

I have recently encountered this with CIG. After a couple campaigns on vanilla CIG is completly different, although I haven't tried a vanilla campaign again, yet. It actually makes alliances, uses more tactics i the battlefield and campaign and the most mindblowing stuff was that it actually used its agents.



Also on another note its my first post after a long time, since shogun 2, watching the site from the sidelines.
to all!