California transgender students now able to pick which bathroom they want.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Story can be found here:
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/08/13/california-governor-signs-landmark-bill-for-transgender-students

They are also given the same freedom to pick which gendered sports program they identify with. I can see why many people would be upset with this, but when I first read this oddly enough the first thing that popped in my head was "Will the women's bathroom need to install urinals now?".

Is this needed equality or just California going too far?

[Kamakazi]

I honestly think equality is a severe quandary of a term. A lot of people want the equality but expect different treatment....

[a completely inoffensive name]

Is it okay to not give a single crap?

Sure, not everything has be important to you. I generally don't care about foreign affairs.

I feel the same way about gay marriage. Just do not care at all. Happy people are being treated better, but overall I see it as liberals wasting their energy on the easy fights.

Interesting, you think that having underage men and women share the same bathrooms is an easy fight to have? I personally am surprised it even happened given how riled parents are when it comes to anything school related.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Eh, I'm not a supporter of this bill from the article you linked.

As I understand it, a student simply needs to claim they are transgender in order to use facilities made for the other gender and compete on sports teams comprised of the other gender. Does this mean some guy just needs to say he was born a male but is really a female, and then can play on female sports teams, without any further effort to actually make the transition (ie surgery, hormone treatments, etc.)?

That seems to open up all sorts of issues regarding abuse of this law.

CR

[Fragony]

I don't get why people would have a problem with the bathroom. Sport is a different matter, it's still a men's body so it's a bit unfair for females, men are just stronger in general. But then again, they get female hormones. What does it do to testosteron buildup, never thought about that

[Husar]

They should just make all bathrooms mixed gender + animals, would be cheaper, too.

And less dog poop on sidewalks.

[Ronin]

reading the news piece I couldn´t figure out at what age this would take place.
the other day I saw a news item about a 6 year old going to court over something like this, I would say that to me it seems like giving attention to this sort of thing before the kid even goes through puberty is ridiculous.

other than that....don´t really care.

[Gregoshi]

They should just make all bathrooms mixed gender + animals, would be cheaper, too.

No. I don't want to wait in long bathroom lines at sport/entertainment events.

[Beskar]

In the United Kingdom, you have to live your life as you would do a woman for one year before you have any surgery. (Same for ftm)

During this time, if you were originally male, you would have to use the female facilities and other gender specific things so you know that this life is for you and if you can put up with the stigma and discrimination associated with being transgender. After the year and you still are positive this is the life for you, you can go ahead and have surgery, hormone treatments and other such things.

With this system in usage..

Should those born male undergoing gender-reassignment be blocked from using the Womens' bathroom? No, and the comment about urinals was just silly nonsense.

As for Sports, I think those should be Unisex anyway in a large degree, only objections should be a professional level.

It is not equality gone too far.

[Fragony]

Just musing, it isn't anything I know something about. What they do know so far in neuroligy is that female brains are different from a male's brain, physically. Has there ever been any research on the wires of someone who feels that he/she was born in the wrong sex-category, it would be interesting.

[Beskar]

Has there ever been any research on the wires of someone who feels that he/she was born in the wrong sex-category, it would be interesting.

Probably a lot of it, unfortunately, I don't have access to the journals I used to use.

Here is a picture explaining about Gender in a simple format:

[HoreTore]

Well, PE-teachers have had a tendency to "forget" stuff in the changing rooms of the opposite gender since forever, so....

Honestly, this is just putting teachers and students on an equal footing.

[Husar]

Probably a lot of it, unfortunately, I don't have access to the journals I used to use.

Here is a picture explaining about Gender in a simple format:

*Picture*

I don't quite get it, which of the figures do they want on bathrooms now and how many different bathrooms are there going to be?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Probably a lot of it, unfortunately, I don't have access to the journals I used to use.

Here is a picture explaining about Gender in a simple format:

Nice graphic - really low on practical application.

First point: Gender specific bathing was instigated primarily to reduce instance of sexual assault - if you live in a nice Western European country, ask someone who live in Eastern Europe or the Med about it.

Second Point: Non-gendered athletics means the death of competitive female athletes - at every level men out-perform women, and unisex athletics will just mean that girls will be dominated by boys - especially in the early-teenage years where we look for the next Olympians.

Third point: Like it or not, we are not a wholly self-defining species. You may feel that you were born in the wrong body, but the vast majority of these people were born in to the "wrong" body that is fully functional and healthy - and it's not readily apparent who is "trans" and who is not.

Fourth point: What does "Shis" stand for? Or is it just to make the trans people feel more "normal" because that's the idea, isn't it? To make trans people feel more normal - even though most people can no more relate to their experience of their bodies than they can to everyone else.

Summation: Life sucks - being a trans teenager is somewhat harder than being a normal teeneager - but it's not like anyone is happy with their body growing up.

[HoreTore]

Second Point: Non-gendered athletics means the death of competitive female athletes - at every level men out-perform women, and unisex athletics will just mean that girls will be dominated by boys - especially in the early-teenage years where we look for the next Olympians.

This is patently false.

Girls improve by training with boys, it's not the other way around.

You become the best by spending your teenage years constantly being beaten. Those who go through their teenage years winning all the time end up as janitors. As proof, I submit Xavi and Iniesta, who rarely won matches in their youth.

I can also throw in Gareth Bale, who had to submit to a set of special rules to make it much harder for him to play, like only using the wrong foot.

[Montmorency]

Gender specific bathing was instigated primarily to reduce instance of sexual assault

That's a strange point to throw out.

If someone wants to commit sexual assault, arbitrary gender-specific bathrooms aren't going to stop them; they'll just waltz right on in to the other gender's bathroom.

Also, having a uni-sex bathroom increases the number of people on average who will be in a bathroom at any given moment, which means a higher chance of someone being on hand to help or call for help in case of a crime being committed.

Summation: Life sucks - being a trans teenager is somewhat harder than being a normal teeneager - but it's not like anyone is happy with their body growing up.

I guess the point is to be more accommodating of the "abnormal" so as to lessen the strain of their existence...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This is patently false.

Girls improve by training with boys, it's not the other way around.

You become the best by spending your teenage years constantly being beaten. Those who go through their teenage years winning all the time end up as janitors. As proof, I submit Xavi and Iniesta, who rarely won matches in their youth.

I can also throw in Gareth Bale, who had to submit to a set of special rules to make it much harder for him to play, like only using the wrong foot.

It is not patently false - the majority of girls will be completely crushed as teenagers facing off against boys. I've seen what happens when guys let loose against girls in sports like rugby - the girls are like ragdolls flying across the pitch - the lack the basic mass to compete. Oh sure, there are exception, but only a very few. Unisex sports would be dominated by men - get over it.

That's a strange point to throw out.

If someone wants to commit sexual assault, arbitrary gender-specific bathrooms aren't going to stop them; they'll just waltz right on in to the other gender's bathroom.

Also, having a uni-sex bathroom increases the number of people on average who will be in a bathroom at any given moment, which means a higher chance of someone being on hand to help or call for help in case of a crime being committed.

The difference being, everybody know a boy shouldn't be in the girls room - and vice versa.

[Montmorency]

The difference being, everybody know a boy shouldn't be in the girls room - and vice versa.

"Hey, you're not supposed to be here."

"Please leave."

"Leave at once or I'll call the guards."

"You're not supposed to touch me there."

"Don't touch me."

"I'm warning you."

"That's it! Guards! Gua-rmphbthmths"

Now, I understand that life can seem like a videogame at times, but come on...

[HoreTore]

It is not patently false - the majority of girls will be completely crushed as teenagers facing off against boys. I've seen what happens when guys let loose against girls in sports like rugby - the girls are like ragdolls flying across the pitch - the lack the basic mass to compete. Oh sure, there are exception, but only a very few. Unisex sports would be dominated by men - get over it.

If there's a girl with potential in a club, she'll start training with the boys(assuming the club has brains). The reason is that in order to progress, you need to train with people of a higher standard than yourself. It's precisely because it will be dominated by boys that the girls prosper. You're not supposed to dominate in your teens, that should be happening when you're 18-20 when you actually start competing.

And come on: you said sports, not sillyness like rugby. That activity is just a substitute for people who are too afraid to get out of the closet, who choose a socially acceptable way of having intimate relations with fellow males.

[Fragony]

I do kickboxing Horrie, do you think it's fair to put a woman in my weightclass against me. Sure, some will kick my butt. But I am stronger and faster, I carry less weight so to say. Someone can hit or kick me on the chest without it really hurting me, it is extremily painfull for a woman though, and could cause serious internal bleedings. My tighs are lighter, so I can kick harder. Women and men are just build diffently, your obsession with equality is just unrealistic. Men are not women.

[Husar]

Women are fat and men have more muzzles.

It's from the Ostrogen and the Westosterone, the Westosterone always wins because capitalism.

[HoreTore]

I do kickboxing Horrie, do you think it's fair to put a woman in my weightclass against me. Sure, some will kick my butt. But I am stronger and faster, I carry less weight so to say. Someone can hit or kick me on the chest without it really hurting me, it is extremily painfull for a woman though, and could cause serious internal bleedings. My tighs are lighter, so I can kick harder. Women and men are just build diffently, your obsession with equality is just unrealistic. Men are not women.

Again, I'm talking about sports and not activites you do to have socially acceptable intimate relations with another man.

Still, a woman who wants to be a good kickboxer will have to train with the boys, yes. You need someone better than you to train with, and that usually means training with the boys.

And this has extremely little to do with "equality", this is about how to improve. Say you have a 10 year old who plays well at his football team. You want him to get better, and so you can choose one of the following three options:

1. Move him down to the 9-year olds so he can really dominate and excel.
2. Stay put and simply be very good at his team-
3. Move him up to the 11-year olds where he will no longer be better than the rest of the players.

Which one do you choose?

[Montmorency]

I like this anecdote (not personal):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

(I’m a secretary for a high end security firm that hires bodyguards out to wealthy businessmen and celebrities. Today, we’re doing a hand-to-hand combat refresher course. Two of our new employees are a pair of former bodybuilders/bouncers. They have been quite belligerent after finding out the tiny, 5’1″ girl in front of them is getting paid far more than what they are.)

Guy #1: “Man this is bull-s***! Why the f*** would anyone pay that micro-b**** to guard them?”

Guy #2: “I know man; I bet she’s [company owner's] daughter, or some stupid s***, and just sits in an office collecting a paycheck.”

Instructor: “[Guy #1]! So glad you’re willing to volunteer for our first demonstration. [Girl], will you please come up here to assist?”

Girl: “Sure thing, lets just get this over with.”

Instructor: “Okay then, [Guy #1] you’re a big strong guy. Your job is to stop the crazy fan-girl who will be played by [Girl] before she gets to the actor you’re protecting.”

(Guy #1 gets a cocky smile, and simply charges forward to grab the girl. He manages to get one hand on her shoulder when she lashes out, kicking one of his legs out from under him. As he stumbles, she pulls him towards her and flips him over her shoulder and into the mat, slamming him hard enough to kick up dust.)

Instructor: *looking down at Guy #1* “And this is lesson one: it doesn’t matter how big or small your assailant is, never underestimate someone. Oh, and since you and [Guy #2] were wondering why she makes three times what you do, this is why. Celebrities hire guys like you to stand in front of them and look scary; millionaire businessmen hire people like her if they want real security.”

I wish my younger sister were like that. Though she's a 'girlie-girl', I try to launch a good blow into her mid-section from time to time, just to see if it will unlock some hidden talent. Or - hmmm....

[Major Robert Dump]

Man this is seriously going to screw up Glory Hole etiquette. Death to America

[Fragony]

Again, I'm talking about sports and not activites you do to have socially acceptable intimate relations with another man.

Still, a woman who wants to be a good kickboxer will have to train with the boys, yes. You need someone better than you to train with, and that usually means training with the boys.

And this has extremely little to do with "equality", this is about how to improve. Say you have a 10 year old who plays well at his football team. You want him to get better, and so you can choose one of the following three options:

1. Move him down to the 9-year olds so he can really dominate and excel.
2. Stay put and simply be very good at his team-
3. Move him up to the 11-year olds where he will no longer be better than the rest of the players.

Which one do you choose?

Don't mind me sticking to my own example. If I would fight in the same way as I do against a man I could cause serious injury to her, we don't have a womb that can burst after a nasty blow, or ovarys that can get damaged, not to mention the damage that can be done to their breasts. Not that females can't be good at it, the daughter of a friend of mine is really good, but he would never let her fight against a man, you just can't risk the potential damage you could do to her. There are just differences to take into consideration.

Edit, I don't do it anymore by the way, knees are kinda messed up

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Man this is seriously going to screw up Glory Hole etiquette. Death to America

There's an etiquette?

You folks with military experience learn to handle just about everything don't you?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And come on: you said sports, not sillyness like rugby. That activity is just a substitute for people who are too afraid to get out of the closet, who choose a socially acceptable way of having intimate relations with fellow males.

Oh - like Chess?

[Major Robert Dump]

There's an etiquette?

You folks with military experience learn to handle just about everything don't you?

Well the etiquette is more a regional thing than a military thing. For example, etiquette at a truck stop in Kentucky will vary significantly from etiquette in a school bathroom in California. One of the items on my bucket list is to use a glory hole in all 50 states, thankfully I got California years ago.

[Noncommunist]

Don't mind me sticking to my own example. If I would fight in the same way as I do against a man I could cause serious injury to her, we don't have a womb that can burst after a nasty blow, or ovarys that can get damaged, not to mention the damage that can be done to their breasts. Not that females can't be good at it, the daughter of a friend of mine is really good, but he would never let her fight against a man, you just can't risk the potential damage you could do to her. There are just differences to take into consideration.

Edit, I don't do it anymore by the way, knees are kinda messed up

There are some male spots that if hit are extremely painful too and could probably be permanently damaged if hit too hard.

[Fragony]

There are some male spots that if hit are extremely painful too and could probably be permanently damaged if hit too hard.

Of course but you aren't allowed to hit there, it's a sport, not a fight. But hits on the belly or on the breast are allowed, so putting a woman against a man is bad idea, women are just more fragile. Also not for the man because unless he's an idiot he won't hit her there.