Forget the vatican let's nuke Brussels

[Fragony]

The international-socialism wants control over free press.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rnalists.html#

[Kralizec]

The first thing I thought was that this was another distortion of facts or outright fabrication on part of the Telegraph, because that's been the case more than once. I've browsed over the summary section of he report it linked to, and I found this. Unless they did an awful job summarizing their own advice, it does sound like a bad idea.

Recommendation: All EU countries should have independent media councils with a politically and
culturally balanced and socially diverse membership. Nominations to them should be
transparent, with built-in checks and balances. Such bodies would have competences to
investigate complaints, much like a media ombudsman, but would also check that media
organisations have published a code of conduct and have revealed ownership details,
declarations of conflicts of interest, etc. Media councils should have real enforcement powers,
such as the imposition of fines, orders for printed or broadcast apologies, or removal of
journalistic status. The national media councils should follow a set of European-wide standards
and be monitored by the Commission to ensure that they comply with European values.

I'll read the whole thing later. It's still just an advice from a bunch of people with no actual decision-making powers.

[Fragony]

Do you know who has the decisions powers? I don't. All I know is that the international-socialism is getting scarier each day, es muss sein no matter what it costs it seems.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Hail the Commissariet!

[Tellos Athenaios]

Lovely bit of article, that:

“Having EU officials overseeing our free press - and monitoring newspapers to ensure they comply with "European values" - would be quite simply intolerable,” he said.

“This is the sort of mind-set that I would expect to find in Iran, not the West. This kooky idea tells us little about the future of press regulation. It does suggest that the European project is ultimately incompatible with the notion of a free society.”

Nigel Farage, the leader of Ukip, compared the proposals to “Orwell's 1984”. “This is a flagrant attack on press freedom. To hear that unelected bureaucrats in Brussels want the power to fine and suspend journalists is just outrageous,” he said.

But what it boils down to is that the whole thing reeks of British libel law with some fixes for the most glaring issues thrown in and some warts from other countries (i.e holocaust denial probably making it on the naughty list).

[HoreTore]

"International socialism" lol


Edit: Is it "let's fling terms we don't understand around"-day today?

[Beskar]

I heard the EU stole the recommendations from the Leveson report, which was brought-in underneath a Eurosceptic Right-wing government in the United Kingdom...

[HoreTore]

I heard the EU stole the recommendations from the Leveson report, which was brought-in underneath a Eurosceptic Right-wing government in the United Kingdom...

Contrary to conservative British opinion, neither the world nor europe revolves around the british isles.

It doesn't really surprise me all that much that the british press and politicians are unaware that these proposed measures are aimed at the kind of media control enacted by Hungary. A press loyal to the ruling party is the beginning of a dictatorship, and not something the EU wants to see happen among their member states.

But meh, the Brits can live with their delusions all they want. Hopefully we'll be rid of them soon anyway.

[Fragony]

"International socialism" lol


Edit: Is it "let's fling terms we don't understand around"-day today?

tsssssssssss THE international socialism. Can I also have my Godwins, superstatetists do it all the time. How about the 'fourth reich'

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Lovely bit of article, that:


But what it boils down to is that the whole thing reeks of British libel law with some fixes for the most glaring issues thrown in and some warts from other countries (i.e holocaust denial probably making it on the naughty list).

Libel is one thing, that's when private individuals sue the Press. We established some time ago that in order to Sue for Libel you had to prove the thing written wasn't true. Press regulation by the State is quite something else - Holocaust denial is a big problem.

[Beskar]

Libel is one thing, that's when private individuals sue the Press. We established some time ago that in order to Sue for Libel you had to prove the thing written wasn't true.

I thought it was the other way around, that you had to prove the thing was true, or "reasonable assumption"/intepretation given the facts , which is how you can avoid libel.

[gaelic cowboy]

Press regulation by the State is quite something else - Holocaust denial is a big problem.

is it really something people should try to prevent people thinking, where is the line on holocaust denial who defines and places the line.

Is it denial to say the death camps were real but less the 6000000 died, if one was to say more than 6000000 million died could you be prosecuted also??

[HoreTore]

is it really something people should try to prevent people thinking, where is the line on holocaust denial who defines and places the line.

Is it denial to say the death camps were real but less the 6000000 died, if one was to say more than 6000000 million died could you be prosecuted also??

Oh come on.

Nobody has ever been bothered about academic discourse on the death toll. The numbers game played by holocaust deniers have noting to do whatsoever with academic research.

I don't support legal action against them though, I believe they should be ridiculed to death.

[gaelic cowboy]

Oh come on.

Nobody has ever been bothered about academic discourse on the death toll. The numbers game played by holocaust deniers have noting to do whatsoever with academic research.

I don't support legal action against them though, I believe they should be ridiculed to death.

interesting would that be by any chance because you actually cannot be prosecuted yet cos the EUcrat laws aint in place yet??

who defines what a denier is though??

I think these kinds of things are slippery slope and best left alone, tis far better these denier loons were laughed at

[HoreTore]

interesting would that be by any chance because you actually cannot be prosecuted yet cos the EUcrat laws aint in place yet??

who defines what a denier is though??

I think these kinds of things are slippery slope and best left alone, tis far better these denier loons were laughed at

These laws are in place in several countries, including Germany and Austria, and people have been convicted because of them, like David Irving.

Differentiating between academic research and the mindnumbing stupidity of the pseudoscience we call holocaust denial is as easy as differentiating between a medical professional and someone who claims he can cure cancer with crystals and herbs.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I thought it was the other way around, that you had to prove the thing was true, or "reasonable assumption"/intepretation given the facts , which is how you can avoid libel.

More or less. In any case, the costs associated with the court case alone (and the slim chance of recovering them unless you can get the case tossed out as being frivolous or something) make the threat of a libel case quite enough to shut up almost anyone.

[Strike For The South]

Europe is ridiculous

[Fragony]

Nigel Farage explains what the international-socialsm wants http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dOZz_VAb3eI

[Greyblades]

We can only ponder at the frightful headway that we could make if farage put that sort of energy into his job; improving the EU parliament, as he does trying to get out of it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

We can only ponder at the frightful headway that we could make if farage put that sort of energy into his job; improving the EU parliament, as he does trying to get out of it.

A Lesson from history: Things don't go all that well when you let Cicero run the Republic.

Also - if you accept that Farage is a halfway-decent politician and thinker then you have to confront the possibility he might be right about the EU.

[Greyblades]

A Lesson from history: Things don't go all that well when you let Cicero run the Republic.

Also - if you accept that Farage is a halfway-decent politician and thinker then you have to confront the possibility he might be right about the EU.

Maybe, the likely-hood is that something this complex probably doesnt have an overall right choice. The obviousness of his agenda and that all three of the main party leaders disagree/ed with him, those men, while lacking compared to predecessors, are probably halfway-decent politicians and thinkers themselves gives reason to doubt that.

I cant help but think that the british public are wanting out through the same sort of anger that sparked the riots, being directed by UKip and others against the EU, than any particular failings of the EU, either way I'm no longer so sure leaving the EU is the best option.

[Fragony]

Judge yourself http://m.youtube.com/results?q=nigel...%20compilation

He just sees things a bit better

Looks like we get a referendum as well about being in the EU, guess what I will say, probably the same as last time

[Fragony]

Failpad won't let me edit for some reason. But here is a fascinating look into the mindset of an eurocrat, our own 'liberal' unelected Neelie Kroes, she is furious that the international-socialism gets less money, someone has to pay the 11.200 eurocrats who make more money than our MP after all, or soundscreens for cows in Poland or deserted airports in Spain, or fitness-centres for the dogs of the Swedish royal family.

'The EU is too important to leave to (democratically elected) politicians'

[Husar]

It's best if we abandon the EU so the corporations can continue their globalization policies of divide and conquer by blackmailing countries to offer them cheaper labor and lower taxes or move elsewhere. I'm sure quoting some guy from the NPD would also make a united and independent Germany under NPD rule look like a stupid idea; doesn't mean we should abandon Germany because of it.
Europe needs to grow together because it will get eaten otherwise. Noone said that's easy.

Nigel Farage is just a ranting fool. He may have a point sometimes but then he always drowns it in an overreaction because he can't stop seeing the EU as some beast that wants to take away his candy. And since he's from Britain that makes him a populist...

[InsaneApache]

Nigel Farage is just a ranting fool. He may have a point sometimes but then he always drowns it in an overreaction because he can't stop seeing the EU as some beast that wants to take away his candy. And since he's from Britain that makes him a populist...

He's no fool and he doesn't rant.

The thing is this. We, in the UK, were told deliberate falsehoods and distortions when we joined in '73. These lies by traitors, yes traitors, were re-iterated in the '75 referendum. I'm into my sixth decade and even I was too young to vote in 75. If I had voted I would probably voted to stay in. Such was the scale of the deception back then.

Fast forward forty years and the British people can see that they were hoodwinked. Then they see the bloody mess the euro-politicians have made of it. A right dogs dinner. The referendum wont come in five years because that's more lies. 'Cast Iron' has form on this. The LibDems (who should be sued under the Trades Descriptions Act) promised a referendum in the 2010 election when they thought they had no chance of power but as soon as they get into government they obfuscate and deny.

Maybe a referendum from the Torys. No referendum from Labour, same with the Lib Dems.

All on the wrong side of history.

Watch the elections next year to see the LabConLibDem party get a right shoeing.

That is all.

[Fragony]

Well I wish I could rant as well as him, but he is certainly no fool. If someone takes the time to watch his rants it's hard to say that he didn't outline what is happening now allready 5 years ago. Exactly. Got him only scorn from a Flemmish ferret who looks like an owl who just dropped from his tree, his Portugese waiter and a German booksalesman. He even got a fine.

[InsaneApache]

It's a good job they don't fine UK politicos for being beastly to other politicos. They'd all be skint.

Says it all when the EU wants to uphold EU values and fine/dismiss/prosecute journalists and bloggers for holding contrary views.

And the continentals (well some of 'em) wonder why the British don't like the EU. It's an anathema to our psyche.

Maybe it's because we were one of the few countries in Europe not to be occupied these last 100 years.

[Fragony]

Not just prosecute them, they want the power to give critical journalists a berufsverbot, still in the making, but they want it. Because it's still in the making national parliaments have no acces to the specifics but it leaked.

[Husar]

It's a good job they don't fine UK politicos for being beastly to other politicos. They'd all be skint.

Says it all when the EU wants to uphold EU values and fine/dismiss/prosecute journalists and bloggers for holding contrary views.

And the continentals (well some of 'em) wonder why the British don't like the EU. It's an anathema to our psyche.

Maybe it's because we were one of the few countries in Europe not to be occupied these last 100 years.

I love you British in general but your island superiority complex is one of the reasons I don't trust any British person on matters regarding the EU. Please describe how exactly the EU is a mess. There are surely things that are wrong with it but you will hardly see a transition progress of any magnitude that is flawless. AFAIK you Brits even have a special contract which means you never really pay in more than you get out of the EU (I'm no expert, neither do I know the contract, but that's what people say). If you really want to work just for your own benefit and pander to your huge banking system for the lack of any other industry, I think it's actually better if you actually do leave and stop delaying the process of european integration.
However, the reason you don't do this is probably because you always want to meddle in European affairs and don't want the rest of Europe to unite, making you pretty insignificant in the process, a very historic and old concept of British politics that may be our undoing due to the growing unity and importance of other huge power blocks such as the USA and China.

Ok, scratch the USA, their internal divisions are their own undoing, no reason to follow them however. Their individual states are already bending over backwards to steal eachothers industries, something we've had here as well with Ireland, Luxembourg etc. offering dumping taxes to corporations and then going bankrupt over it anyway.
Economic integration without political integration does not work however, it just leads to problems like we have in Greece and so on now, where some people just use some systemic insufficiencies to milk others dry (referring also to the banks that sucked Greece dry).

Further pooling and integration of other resources such as military development could also lead to cost savings. Why do Britain and France need their own tank designs if the German tank is better anyway? And could the German tank perhaps be even better if French and British tank designers had helped its development with their own advice and solutions? Furthermore the larger production numbers for such defense assets would reduce the unit costs and allow the EU to set up an army that could finally beat the USA be an international contender and of more use, possibly NOT run out of useful bombs during a two week campaign in Libya...

This could even offset the additional costs of European politicians although honestly I don't feel any poorer because of them.
And don't forget about the good effects of the EU, such as on human rights issues, on energy and environmental issues (no more wasteful light bulbs, even the Americans copied us there and switched to lead-infested CFLs, but give it some time and they'll ban the lead in those as well). The new consumer regulations that raise the consumer protection standard in all EU countries close to German levels are also a great thing that everybody in the nations where customers were exploited can now benefit from. To say only bad things come from the EU is a gross oversimplification and nowhere near reality.

[InsaneApache]

Further pooling and integration of other resources such as military development could also lead to cost savings. Why do Britain and France need their own tank designs if the German tank is better anyway? And could the German tank perhaps be even better if French and British tank designers had helped its development with their own advice and solutions?

More tech trees?