Wait, can we define "extermination"? I have yet to see any real evidence that Israel is systematically murdering the Palestinians, just widespread oppression. I would compare it to post Kristallnacht, pre-ww2 Germany.
The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
Wait, can we define "extermination"? I have yet to see any real evidence that Israel is systematically murdering the Palestinians, just widespread oppression. I would compare it to post Kristallnacht, pre-ww2 Germany.
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Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
It reminds me more of 1984 and the Communist regimes that inspired the novel. The definition of a conformist people and the contrary definition of an unpeople who don't fit the first definition who are outlawed from normal society and ghettoised into areas away from the proper people. There is no need to argue hatred against them if you can argue against their existence.Originally Posted by Hooahguy
Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
I wouldn't. The Kristallnacht was just the second event that showed the brutality of the regime, they had certainly let their nature known by the night of the long knives. If you want to argue that the kristallnacht showed a greater likelihood of genocide than the night of the long knives, well, there's a strong argument to be made that several people(even, or should I say especially, among displaced jews) was of the opinion that the action was undertaken to remove them from power/germany and put them to different use, but not specifically to kill them all.
Anyway, the old "Israel is held to a different standard"-argument is so old and tired it's getting absurd. It is, of course, utterly false. Israel isn't held to a different standard than, say, the UK or the US. Have we forgotten how apeshit we went back in the good ol' days of W's sabre rattling already? There is certainly a hefty dose of jew-hate in this world, but a call for academic boycott certainly does not fit that category.
And while we're on the subject of academic boycotts... If we make the assumption that intellectuals and artists have an actual impact on both society and politics, directly or indirectly, it is certainly a kind of boycott I would support, far and above the silly jaffa-boycotts others want. The reasoning is that Joe Israel wouldn't feel any impact, and it would force through a change. Now, whether academia have an actual impact on society is of course another discussion....
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
It'll end up as another round of "the dog chasing it's own tail."
The Academic Left are largely of the opinion that Israel stole most of the land it claims from the Palestinians, that they stole the land despite the UN suggesting different borders (many of them believe that the UN had no right to establish a Jewish state/carve up Palestine in the first place). The view the Israeli occupation of Gaza, the West Bank, and anything beyond the 1947 borders as illegal. They view Israeli treatment of the Palestinians as being somewhere on a scale between illegal and immoral on one end down to evil/just as bad as the Nazis on the other. Academics boycotting Israel -- at least as individuals -- is a decades old thing. I knew folks who wouldn't submit a paper idea for a conference in Israel just on that basis.
All of this, however, is irrelevant. Absent a nation state willing to pay the blood price to eradicate them, they are not moving. They will not give the Palestinians anything resembling the "right of return" compensation they seek. They will not allow Palestinians self-rule while there is anything resembling a credible threat from that state or its adherents. All of this boycotting and worrying about is it anti-Semitism or not is rather moot.
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Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
An academic boycott is sort of pointless. Sure, it makes a statement but its effect on the situation is negligible.
Israel is there to stay; what becomes of the Palestinians is vague at best.
Just don't cry when someone gets fed up with the BS and blows themselves up at your convocation.
Ja-mata TosaInu
Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
True, but it would also have zero effect on the average Israeli. It can have two possible effects:
1. Moderate Israeli academics/artist who have some sympathi for the palestinians, but have kept it to themselves, may feel the need to voice their opposition to current Israeli policy in public.
2. The hawks gain another propaganda point, further radicalizing the Israeli loonie-fringe.
It would be effective if it causes more of 1 than of 2, but I fear it's the opposite.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
imho academic boycotts are just as idiotic as olympic boycotts. Science like sports should be above politics.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
Academics and athletes should not be free to speak their mind?
All hail freedom!!!!!11111
(I'm not going to bother pointing out how removing politics from science is a logical impossibility)
Last edited by HoreTore; 01-10-2014 at 23:37.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
I agree.
If it mobilizes academia to actually object and articulate then it works; however to articulate objections to the "Whole Land " project in Israel is in some sectors equivalent to treason.
The issue is extremely polarized; bringing it to a head might be dangerous. I just don't think there is the "will" in Israel to face the issue.
Ja-mata TosaInu
Re: The BDS movement and the association of anti-Zionism and antisemitism
I don't know that movement. But how is the fixation in Israel not anti-semitism, do the same people who get all worked up about Israel get worked up about other problematic parts of the world, nope, they don't. If you do a process of elimination of all factors, how can you not come to the conclusion that it's absolutily antisemitism, just a less obvious one because they can now blame a state. What else could make Israel so special for them?
'And don’t tell me this is merely about Zionism. The ruse is transparent. Israel is the world’s only Jewish state. To apply to the state of the Jews a double standard that you apply to none other, to judge one people in a way you judge no other, to single out that one people for condemnation and isolation — is to engage in a gross act of discrimination.
And discrimination against Jews has a name. It’s called anti-Semitism.'
I agree with him. Jews should still watch their back in ffing 2014 .The EU couldn't wait to give the muslim brotherhood free money, and you know what they stand for. The EU gives free money to the Hamas-government, and you know what they stand for.
Israel got one big boa-constrictor around it's neck, it just isn't allowed that they got their own hub there.
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