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Thread: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

  1. #1
    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    Interesting article concerning how the Medieval people viewed Monastic orders like Knights Templar and Knights St. John.

    http://www.historytoday.com/helen-ni...edieval-europe
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  2. #2
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    An interesting read, haven't gone through all of it yet. The information is conflicting and it depends on whom you ask (or would have asked back then). In general, it's humans being human, trying to outdo one another in who gets more power and control, and with a few noble hearted men thrown in the mix.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    An interesting read, haven't gone through all of it yet. The information is conflicting and it depends on whom you ask (or would have asked back then). In general, it's humans being human, trying to outdo one another in who gets more power and control, and with a few noble hearted men thrown in the mix.
    I think you are hitting the nail right to the head. Like you said. Everyone had their motives and point of views and their attitudes stem from those, just like we humans have a habit to do.
    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    I'm surprised that the article did not mention the politics of the accusations made in 1307 that led to the Templars' downfall. The Templars owned almost as much land in France as the king did, which must have been very annoying to an ambitious man like King Philip IV. If I remember my history correctly, he arranged for their arrest, he arranged for the charges brought against them, and forced his reluctant captive pope to destroy the order. In one move he broke a powerful rival in his own kingdom, almost doubled his territory by confiscating their land, and possibly got out of having to repay loans the Templars had given him. (I'm not sure if he owed them money or not.)

    I'd say that gives pretty good reason to question if even their accusors believed the charges against the Templars (except the ones that were not new, of course.)
    Last edited by Brandy Blue; 01-17-2014 at 03:08.
    In those simple times there was a great wonder and mystery in life. Man walked in fear and solemnity, with Heaven very close above his head, and Hell below his very feet. God's visible hand was everywhere, in the rainbow and the comet, in the thunder and the wind. The Devil too raged openly upon the earth; he skulked behind the hedge-rows in the gloaming; he laughed loudly in the night-time; he clawed the dying sinner, pounced on the unbaptized babe, and twisted the limbs of the epileptic. A foul fiend slunk ever by a man's side and whispered villainies in his ear, while above him there hovered an angel of grace . . .

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    Philip IV owed money to everyone. The charges were spurious and were a money grab.

    The debtor grabbed the bank and confiscated the cash.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  6. #6
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    Hmm... As far as heresy goes, they were in possession of forbidden knowledge (the "mystery religions"). You can see that the modern day Scottish Right Freemasonry and other such organizations are very esoteric in nature, their rituals and knowledge would be deemed heretical in that time.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    That was a charge made by a king and not a very pious king at that. Not the Pope, though he was forced into it.

    Not every country outlawed them, which shows most knew what was going on.

    Remember the church was very much into some esoteric fields at the time too. This was the excuse not the motive.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  8. #8
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    That was a charge made by a king and not a very pious king at that. Not the Pope, though he was forced into it.

    Not every country outlawed them, which shows most knew what was going on.

    Remember the church was very much into some esoteric fields at the time too. This was the excuse not the motive.
    I agree completely.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Contemporary views of Christian military orders

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    The debtor grabbed the bank and confiscated the cash.
    Not a bad trick, but I don't think I'd get away with it.
    In those simple times there was a great wonder and mystery in life. Man walked in fear and solemnity, with Heaven very close above his head, and Hell below his very feet. God's visible hand was everywhere, in the rainbow and the comet, in the thunder and the wind. The Devil too raged openly upon the earth; he skulked behind the hedge-rows in the gloaming; he laughed loudly in the night-time; he clawed the dying sinner, pounced on the unbaptized babe, and twisted the limbs of the epileptic. A foul fiend slunk ever by a man's side and whispered villainies in his ear, while above him there hovered an angel of grace . . .

    Arthur Conan Doyle

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