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Thread: Fascism

  1. #1

    Default Fascism

    I did not want to hijack the Communist/Theocracy thread, but I did want to try to answer the people who had questions about fascism. I will try and give the best description I can, but direct questions would be better.

    Fascism has its origins in the Spartan governmental system, not Mussolini(although of course it got its name from his movement). There are a lot of misconceptions about the ideology because of how it was instituted in the '30s.

    These days, fascism is essentially a heavily regulated capitalist meritocracy. The military and the industrial sectors are the most valued components of society, and that is where the leadership is primarily drawn from. The two distinct groups keep each other in check. Instead of the popularity contests voted on by the feeble public of a democracy, or the innumerable problems caused by hereditary power, fascist society is ruled by those that have proven themselves the best among their peers.

    Fascism promotes a class system based on merit. Those who prove themselves intelligent, diligent, and committed advance in society, while those who are less than stellar are not burdened with the responsibility of leadership or voting. Why should the opinion of a stupid, lazy man count the same as a smart, hard working one?

    A fascist society is based in tradition and promotes nationalism. Unlike communism, fascism embraces cultural tradition and idealizes national heroes and advancements. Conservative in nature, the government promotes education in the sciences, and culturally significant forms of art. (Substantive, not crap)

    Most importantly, fascism emphasizes competition. Idyllic fascist society enables the best to rise to the top and lead the others. Unlike communism and republicanism which emphasizes equality among all, fascism promotes the idea that people are inherently unequal, and the best people deserve the best places in society.

    A fascist nation is only answerable to itself. It acts in its own best interest first and foremost. Whether this means war or peace, the betterment of the nation and its people come first before all other considerations.

    Of course, the fatal flaw with this system that caused such problems in the 20th century was leadership. Mussolini bullied himself in, while Hitler swooned an uneducated public.

    Power would be split between a group of the top leaders in the nation and a supreme leader. How this power would be distributed and, more importantly, how the institutions would initially come into being are fundamental issues that make fascism difficult to establish correctly in a nation.

    Fascism is not necessarily racism, state sponsored homicide, or warfare.



    Now then, feel free to tear it apart. I will be happy to answer any genuine questions, and maybe some insults as well. ~:P

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  2. #2

    Default Re: Fascism

    Fair play to ya Panzer .
    A brave attempt , but what you have done is shown is shown the fundamental flaws that make fascism as an ideology just as repugnanrt as many other isms .

    I will be happy to answer any genuine questions
    OK try this one for a start .
    Fascism is not necessarily racism
    If fascism with its basis of nationalism , meritocracy and superiority must of course view all other non nationals as not so meritable or superior because...well because they are of a different nationality , then how can it not be racist ?

  3. #3
    American since 2012 Senior Member AntiochusIII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Fascism has its origins in the Spartan governmental system, not Mussolini(although of course it got its name from his movement). There are a lot of misconceptions about the ideology because of how it was instituted in the '30s.
    Spartans weren't fascists. Not in a modern sense, no. Sure, the ideology draws from just about every source possible, Spartans probably included, but the ancient city-state wasn't fascism.
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    These days, fascism is essentially a heavily regulated capitalist meritocracy. The military and the industrial sectors are the most valued components of society, and that is where the leadership is primarily drawn from. The two distinct groups keep each other in check. Instead of the popularity contests voted on by the feeble public of a democracy, or the innumerable problems caused by hereditary power, fascist society is ruled by those that have proven themselves the best among their peers.
    Actually, what really happened is that fascism is at least as much a populist regime as a typical Democracy. It just interprets populism in a far more Machiavellian sense -- if the public doesn't believe, make it believe, usually including the disappearance of certain undesirable elements that oppose the regime's viewpoint too strongly.

    Also, it's not any more of a meritocracy than a typical democratic government either; even less, in fact, since accountability is close to absolute zero in most cases, and the ruling classes jealously guard their privileges with extremely questionable methods if need be.

    By the way, what is "these days?" I'm not aware of a truly fascist regime surviving in the world. A lot of tinpot dictators, sure, but no full-blown Restored Roman Empire (!!!) states as far as I know.
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Fascism promotes a class system based on merit. Those who prove themselves intelligent, diligent, and committed advance in society, while those who are less than stellar are not burdened with the responsibility of leadership or voting. Why should the opinion of a stupid, lazy man count the same as a smart, hard working one?
    Because the stupid, lazy man is the Leader's crony? Fascism relies on a symbolic head; that symbolic head is usually a tyrant just as bad as the worst of monarchs before him.

    The system promotes ruthless, unscrupulous takeovers of the leadership positions. The worst kinds of thugs and scums usually make it there.

    Poor, honest Frank will have to do with his one-room apartment in the slums of Palermo. He's neither cruel nor rich enough to "win," nor is he dishonest enough to play the sycophant.
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    A fascist society is based in tradition and promotes nationalism. Unlike communism, fascism embraces cultural tradition and idealizes national heroes and advancements. Conservative in nature, the government promotes education in the sciences, and culturally significant forms of art. (Substantive, not crap)
    Wrong. It promotes a romanticization and distortion of all academic fields for the purpose of state propaganda. It bastardizes traditions in favor of acquiring the "glorious past" that the nation could then strive for, no matter that it never existed. It stamps out dissident thoughts -- usually crucial in ensuring the honesty of the "progress" -- and stifles fields the leadership feels is unimportant. I'm sorry, Mr. Potter, but pottery is insignificant to the glory of the nation; please be coerced into joining the Army. Or else.

    The government-sponsored "education" is essentially a years-long propaganda campaign to instill into the youth misguided ideas of "the enemy," "national glory," and such; allowing humans to do things to other humans they usually won't likely to do without either desperation or said "education."
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Most importantly, fascism emphasizes competition. Idyllic fascist society enables the best to rise to the top and lead the others. Unlike communism and republicanism which emphasizes equality among all, fascism promotes the idea that people are inherently unequal, and the best people deserve the best places in society.
    I suppose you're right on this one. Which doesn't change a thing for me, since to me social darwinism is a despicable ideal. You are a big fish wanting to eat all the small fish, big macho alpha male? Get away from civilization, then!; something like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    A fascist nation is only answerable to itself. It acts in its own best interest first and foremost. Whether this means war or peace, the betterment of the nation and its people come first before all other considerations.
    If you mean the intention alone (obviously the results aren't very impressive), then you can include the nation, but not the people. Forget about the people; the people are tools of the state, they are a part of the glory, and can die, starve, and be massacred for national glory if need be. They don't need freedom, rights, or luxury goods beyond the basic necessities that allow them to perform functions the state requires of them or to keep their boots shiny enough to parade.
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Power would be split between a group of the top leaders in the nation and a supreme leader. How this power would be distributed and, more importantly, how the institutions would initially come into being are fundamental issues that make fascism difficult to establish correctly in a nation.
    Top leaders of what? Supreme leaders from what? All these either come from established ruling classes -- usually scums, thugs in nobles' clothing -- or from the thugs themselves, who wade through blood and/or backroom backstabbings to rise to the top.

    So *your* fascism is an oligarchy, then? Who'd topple the oligarchs once they become decadent, inbred, or merely just irritating?
    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Fascism is not necessarily racism, state sponsored homicide, or warfare.
    You cannot deny the latter; the desire for expansion and national glory is intertwined, and the claim to national glory (a bloody lame concept, in any case) is inherent in whatever constitutes anybody's fascisms. Moreover, all humans are unequal (based on nationality, race, colour, wealth, or conditions of servitude) = racism.
    Last edited by AntiochusIII; 03-19-2007 at 09:11.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Fair play to ya Panzer .
    A brave attempt , but what you have done is shown is shown the fundamental flaws that make fascism as an ideology just as repugnanrt as many other isms .


    OK try this one for a start .
    Fascism is not necessarily racism
    If fascism with its basis of nationalism , meritocracy and superiority must of course view all other non nationals as not so meritable or superior because...well because they are of a different nationality , then how can it not be racist ?

    Well, I did my best. It is harder to give an all-encompassing description rather than answer specific questions.

    To answer your question, race and national identity are not synonyms. In idyllic fascism, merit, not race, would be the key to advancement.

    Again, racism was used heavily in Nazi Germany, but that was simply their take on fascism.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Fascism

    Antiochus,

    Most of your arguments are based on the fascist states of the 20th century.

    I am certainly not intending on defending the actions of Nazi Germany or Fascist Italy. I am in complete agreement that those regimes, while being the closest actual attempts at fascism, did not work.

    I am simply trying to show you why it is my opinion that fascism - "if done well" - is preferable to the other major governmental theories, and why it would be so difficult to institute it "well".

    Edit: One of your points that is applicable to the modern theory.

    I suppose you're right on this one. Which doesn't change a thing for me, since to me social darwinism is a despicable ideal. You are a big fish wanting to eat all the small fish, big macho alpha male? Get away from civilization, then!; something like that.
    It is not about "eating up the little fish", it is about the best people advancing while the worst(stupid, lazy, unpatriotic) fall into the worst positions in society. People get what they deserve based on their merits. Those without merits are deservingly dealt with by the state.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 03-19-2007 at 09:40.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Fascism

    To answer your question, race and national identity are not synonyms. In idyllic fascism, merit, not race, would be the key to advancement.
    But if someone from another race/nationality/heritage/culture merits advancement then surely their race/nationaltity/heritage/culture should be taught as superior to that of the domestic one .
    Don't forget your basis is that national tradition and culture are what sets the nation and its citizens above those of other nations and cultures .
    So if someone else was to advance on merit it would undermine the whole national/cultural concept .

    But anyway Antiochus has set you some real challenging ones there to explain .

  7. #7
    Poll Smoker Senior Member CountArach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    It is not about "eating up the little fish", it is about the best people advancing while the worst(stupid, lazy, unpatriotic) fall into the worst positions in society.
    So basically a person who does not want to be oppressed by their government on the grounds that "It is for the good of the state", and as such is unpatriotic, would be unable to rise to the top? What makes these people less worthy of the top spot than someone else?
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    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    These days, fascism is essentially a heavily regulated capitalist meritocracy. The military and the industrial sectors are the most valued components of society, and that is where the leadership is primarily drawn from. The two distinct groups keep each other in check. Instead of the popularity contests voted on by the feeble public of a democracy, or the innumerable problems caused by hereditary power, fascist society is ruled by those that have proven themselves the best among their peers.
    Here is the problem. 'The best among peers' is an extremely fickle subject, and someone who is appropriate to rule at one point will not be so at another time in the future. However, the very nature of fascism makes it possible for such people to consolidate their own power and prevent that very selection based on merit that you describe as fundamental to the proper functioning of a fascist state. Good leaders will not always remain so, and bad leaders are exceedingly hard to remove while preserving a fascist state.
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  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member English assassin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    It is not about "eating up the little fish", it is about the best people advancing while the worst(stupid, lazy, unpatriotic) fall into the worst positions in society. People get what they deserve based on their merits. Those without merits are deservingly dealt with by the state
    OK. Lets say for the sake of argument that this is a "good idea" (to be defined, but form now, take it as a given)

    How does fascism improve on western liberal democracy in delivering an outcome where the "best" people are "adanced" and the "worst" are not?

    As far as I can see fascism has major drawbacks, even if we accept the idea that fascism could be implimented without reference to race (which I don't in fact accept, and nor do I find the fetishising of the "nation" attractive, but as I say, for the sake of argument).

    First, it seems to come with an odd preference for the military and industrial sectors. Apparently it is not enough to be the best at what you do, to be the best best you must be a soldier or a junker. Why? Isn't being a doctor, a teacher, or an artist also good?

    Second, fascism is simply another attempt to plan the market. All the historical evidence is against you here except, possibly, in the very special case of a society facing an extreme and short term challenge. The only example I can think of would be the USSR/UK/USA in WWII, none of which were of course fascist. There seems to be no reason at all for thinking that a planned economy will be advantageous in peacetime. On the contrary, the evidence is that it will be less efficient and deliver worse outcomes for everyone.

    If you look at the west it seems to me you find a system where the "best" do in fact advance very considerably. And, in an improvement on fascism, they are not the "best" because they are deemed to be the best by some ideology/party machinery deriving its authority from I know not quite where, they are the "best" as a result of the operation of the market. (There may be those who feel that even that does not fully capture the richness of human experience, and that a highly paid businessman is not necessarily "better" than a lowly paid social worker, but again, allow it for the sake of argument. Lets see if fascism works even on its own terms)

    IHMO fascism's primary appeal is to those who would define "best" as "those who have the insight to be fascists". it is a genuinely dangerous ideology even in these so caled "modern" terms, since a combination of a peculiar fixation on the "nation" (and hence an inevitable distain for that which is not of "the nation", bioth internally and externally) and an economic theory which really only had any merit in a short term **** or bust production burn, and which will over time inevitably deliver living standards that fall behind other nations (thereby creating the need to distract the people) will always tend to make a fascist state an aggressive and hostile player on the world stage.

    Still, kudos for discussing it sensibly PJ.
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    A very, very Senior Member Adrian II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    1. Power corrupts even the best minds, and unchecked power does so at twice the pace.

    2. Make that three times the pace for communism and fascism, since corporatism (merger of state and corporate power) means one less check on power.
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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Thanks a lot for this thread, PanserJager! I surfed a fascist forum some years, but to be honest, I can't remember much of it... Ignore the some of the idiot criticism, some people prefer to rot in ignorance and give up a good chance to learn about something they know little about.

    I do have a question; what groups/persons are furthering the fascist ideology today? And is it still changing?

    Oh, and to the comment on Spartans... If you can call the Athenian democracy the beginning of democracy, then surely you can call the Spartans the beginning of fascism...
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Fascism

    Ignore the some of the idiot criticism, some people prefer to rot in ignorance and give up a good chance to learn about something they know little about.


    I surfed a fascist forum some years, but to be honest, I can't remember much of it...
    Visit one of the forums again , there are lots of them , and they are very very educational ...... educational in so far as seeing how many idiots are out there and just how crazy their ideas are .
    Now I would post links to some nice Norwegian fascist sites , but that tends to get me a severe spanking from the mods .
    So instead I must suggest that you find and revisit some of those forums and then come back and try and talk of idiot criticism and rotting in ignorance .

  13. #13
    is not a senior Member Meneldil's Avatar
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    Default Re : Fascism

    According to your definition, many Western Countries could be labeled as fascist States, while they're in fact not. *cough* US *cough*

    It is not about "eating up the little fish", it is about the best people advancing while the worst(stupid, lazy, unpatriotic) fall into the worst positions in society. People get what they deserve based on their merits. Those without merits are deservingly dealt with by the state.
    Apart the 'unpatriotic' thingy, isn't that how modern societies work ? I mean, although you might be thinking that these horrid nany states allow anyone to have a great life, you'd be surprised to see that the stupid and lazy people are still a the bottom of the social leader, and will stay there forever.

    Unlike communism and republicanism which emphasizes equality among all, fascism promotes the idea that people are inherently unequal, and the best people deserve the best places in society.
    Well, AFAIK, republicanism doesn't emphasize equality but equity. These are 2 very different things.
    And well, equity very much shows who is the best one : you're not labeled as the best because of your race/your ideology/your father who is the party's leader, but because you studied more and worked harder.

    Overall, I think your definition of the ideal fascism is quite flawed, as it tends to oppose the leader and the ruling class (aka 'the best one(s)') to the - quite stupid - mass, while fascism is political ideology that emphazises as much on the mass as on the leader. What you're describing is simply elitism (an ideology that was also theorized -is that a word btw ?-, mainly after the French Revolution), not fascism.
    Last edited by Meneldil; 03-19-2007 at 14:05.

  14. #14
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    I am simply trying to show you why it is my opinion that fascism - "if done well" - is preferable to the other major governmental theories, and why it would be so difficult to institute it "well".
    Therin lies the rub. The same can be said about many forms of government, perhaps all of them.


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  15. #15
    Crusading historian Member cegorach's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    WOW ! Another useless important thread in the ORG.

    Makes me wonder if I should start another one - 'human sacrifice - the best way to get rid of crime'

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    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    fundamental issues that make fascism difficult to establish correctly in a nation
    which seem to be the same ones that prevented "true" communism in the USSR, "true" Anarchism anywhere there is an angry mob, or the smooth and honest running of ANY sytem of government. No matter how lofty the ideals, the fact is there are people who will exploit any "system" for their own ends.

    IMHO open, democratic societies free from ideologies are the safest bet in the long run -- it is not about finding the best possible form of government, more about preventing the worst. As other posters have mentioned, the corporatisation of state and industry is not good. Look at the problems we have even in democracies when government and business get too close.

    Can't remember who said it, but it has been said that fascism requires one supremely intelligent person, and all the rest must be a dim as possible. This is certainly evidenced by the various so-called fascist movements we've seen in the West in recent years.

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    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    Idyllic fascist society enables the best to rise to the top and lead the others.
    Is this not the goal of all the political systems we humans have tried? And the thing that is most difficult to achieve on a sustained basis?

    Just when we find (or select) a benevolent monarch, or a compassionate dictator, or an enlightened president or prime minister... they die. How we find the next good one, without resort to brutality, is what marks the various systems as workable and desireable, or not. How the "rise to the top" is achieved is as important as who has done it.

    And finally, AdrianII's "power corrupts" observation has been shown true on so many occasions, that we must allow for it in our systems, instead of denying that it happens, or "it won't happen with this guy."

    Nicely laid-out thumbnail sketch, PJ. Some may dispute the details and origins, but none can challenge that the OP is "P.Jager's understanding of fascism."
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Fascism

    Fascism - the political system that makes communism all the more appealing.

    Myself I prefer some kind of Anarchy.
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    Forum Lurker Member Sir Moody's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Oh, and to the comment on Spartans... If you can call the Athenian democracy the beginning of democracy, then surely you can call the Spartans the beginning of fascism...
    before I go into anything else no the spartans do not fit the Fascist ideals very well they had a well structured noble class from which the leaders were chosen from and while they had 2 Kings who shared power who were chosen by the other nobles rather than by their heritage the common spartan would never have had the chance to become a leader or even a noble even if he had the ability - they were not a meritocracy and so they are not a fascist state they in fact are a slight variant of the normal Monarchy.


    now i will shock a few people here in agreeing with Panzer that fascism as an ideal isnt a bad thing - it is basically a Meritocracy version of Monarchy where people rise through the ranks through merit rather than breeding but much like communism it is doomed to fail because it just cannot work - there has yet to be one fascist state that managed to bring the ideal into being primarily because the people at the top are all powerful and power corrupts.

    The first real Fascist state would be the French Revolutionists leading to napoleon who should really be the poster child for all fascists everywhere - he out of all dictators everywhere almost created the meritocracy required for a proper fascist state - he promoted generals from the infantry because they had skill rather than because they had rich fathers. But despite this power corrupts and Napoleon ended up like the royalty of the surrounding countries - ironic since they were his "enemy" used to solidify support of the people.

    Fascism is one of those Good on paper deals like communism that cannot possible survive in the real world - someone will always be born into a position where either through money or social position can manipulate the system to take power without merit.

  20. #20
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    One wonders where the utterly opportunistic populism so characteristic of historical, actually extant fascism was forgotten...?
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    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    I think I should repeat what I said once again and that is that Fascism is basically militant/radical populism, at least the Mussolini type of fascism which can be summed up by what Mussolini said about the political goals of the fascists "We want to rule Italy". This also means that the only thing consistent in fascism is the party, while the power base changes, again taking Mussolini as an example as in the beginning he expressed socialist views with nationalism thrown into them, because there were alot of dissatisfied workers in Italy at the time, later he made the middle-class and to some degree the upper class his power base.

    The first real Fascist state would be the French Revolutionists leading to napoleon who should really be the poster child for all fascists everywhere - he out of all dictators everywhere almost created the meritocracy required for a proper fascist state
    I would classify many of the French revolutionaries (the ones who ruled during the reign of terror) as closer to the Bolsheviks than to the Fascists, especially considering the view many of them had on religion.

    Also... the Spartans enforced equality (at least in material posessions) among themselves. I don't know what that qualifies them as... Spartans maybe.
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    Member Member gunslinger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Several people have already commented that just about any form of government is OK if you assume that it exists in ideal circumstances. This is even true for fascism. In fact, under ideal circumstances you could all just acknowledge me as dictator for life, because, ideally, I would be just and fair, and all of you would agree wholeheartedly with the way I run things.

    In an ideal society, we wouldn't even need government. Everyone would just do the right thing automatically.

    So, let's keep this discussion real. So far, a mix of republicanism / democracy operating under a mostly capitalist economy (they all contain various degrees of socialism ) has been the only thing proven to work in the modern world. The only aspect that is really open to debate is how much socialism should be thrown into the mix, and that is dependent on the culture being governed.
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    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Should the nation support the ideology or the ideology support the nation?

    Facism is fundamentally weak.

    It relies on one strong leader and his patronage and so will have difficulty with the transition to a new one.

    It depends on both external and internal enemies in order to glorify the national ideal, and is hence more than a little self destrucive.

    It requires the excessive use of propaganda to hide the flaws in the system, which in turn harms education and prevents innovation.

    It relies on a planned economy which stifles market forces and stunts economic growth in the long term.

    Foreign policy becomes a laughable contradiction of both maintaining the notion of national superiority and yet also having to make deals with your "inferiors" in order to operate in the real world.

    By necessity it requires huge expenditure on the armed forces and government bureaucracy, which are economic dead-weights.

    Generally speaking a facist state will not actually be a meritocracy at all.

    Of course all these flaws can also be seen in other government types. Communism has most of them as well, and died by them too. Even democracies can suffer them, but the point is that they are not institutionalised. In the case of democracy these flaws are a drag on the state, not a crutch.

    I'm not sure how well a facist state would fare in today's global economy either.

    Facism is, however, a good means of instituting extremely rapid social and political reform. Tightly centralised control based on the total subservience of the armed force (probably a military coupe), a central idea of superiority over other people and ideologies and the idea that the government cannot be wrong because otherwise they wouldn't be the government. Add in a dash of brutality, hatred of intellectuals and a lot of short term thinking and we have a nice little means of shafting our own country!
    "Put 'em in blue coats, put 'em in red coats, the bastards will run all the same!"

    "The English are a strange people....They came here in the morning, looked at the wall, walked over it, killed the garrison and returned to breakfast. What can withstand them?"

  24. #24
    Hand Bacon Member ShadeHonestus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by gunslinger
    Several people have already commented that just about any form of government is OK if you assume that it exists in ideal circumstances. This is even true for fascism. In fact, under ideal circumstances you could all just acknowledge me as dictator for life, because, ideally, I would be just and fair, and all of you would agree wholeheartedly with the way I run things.



    Everything is ideal on paper, its just when you add human beings that things get all muckered (is that a word?) up. So many of these model governments look to fly in the face of human nature, those most successful will harness or rechannel mankind's inclinations.
    "There is a true glory and a true honor; the glory in duty done and the honor in the integrity of principle."

    "The truth is this; the march of Providence so long, that of the individual so brief, that we often only see the ebb of the advancing wave. It is history which teaches us to hope."

  25. #25
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJager
    I am simply trying to show you why it is my opinion that fascism - "if done well" - is preferable to the other major governmental theories, and why it would be so difficult to institute it "well".
    Here, however, we find the main flaw with fascism: its great susceptibility to be corrupted from its ideal state into a different. In theory, nearly all governmental systems sound great: communism, meritocracy, anarchy, aristocracy, monarchy. However, such is human nature that in practice, many of these systems become awful. Fascism is the same. On paper, it sounds brilliant. However, 99 cases out of a 100 do not even approach the idyllic state of fascism you have described. And the nature of fascism is such that it is one of the hardest systems to get rid of if things do go wrong.
    However, fascism can sometimes work as an effective stopgap governement in times of crisis, in order to avert chaos and the possible disintegration of a country. In point to Franco's Spain as a case in point. During the turbulent times from the '30s to the '50s, fascism, for someone like me who finds communism an abhorrent governmental system, was probable the best governmental system Spain could have had. True, civil liberties, human rights and all that jazz were very limited, however, the fascsist government allowed Spain to go through the economic boom from '59 to '73. Had the Republicans won in the Civil War, it is very likely that the country would have become communist, which would not have allowed the huge economic growth of Spain. Thanks to fascism, Spain managed to approach the development levels of Western Europe, allowing it thus to enter the Common Market in '73, thirty years before the communist states of Eastern Europe.
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  26. #26
    Second-hand chariot salesman Senior Member macsen rufus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    muckered (is that a word?)
    It is now
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  27. #27
    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Is there a fascist system in history wich suits your tastes in particular, Panzer?

  28. #28
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Tribesman
    Now I would post links to some nice Norwegian fascist sites , but that tends to get me a severe spanking from the mods .
    If you're feeling a bit down some day, just read some of the stuff on Vigrid's homepage, it's guaranteed to make you laugh your ass off...

    But they're not fascist really, they are, if memory serves me right, the remnants of the norwegian nazi party(Nasjonal Samling, or NS), and as such follow the "philosophy" of Vidkun Quisling, mixed in with Odin and the other Norse gods... They are more racist than anything else really. Except pathetic...
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  29. #29

    Default Re: Fascism

    Horetore whats happened to the Nasjonal Samling website , my link to it comes up as "site suspended" ? Same with a lot of the US and german groups I have links for , even Vanguard have got rid of their links section .
    Oh well its back to that routine of waiting in the forums laughing at the rubbish till some idiot posts new links again

    and as such follow the "philosophy" of Vidkun Quisling, mixed in with Odin and the other Norse gods
    Aw come on you have to admire their respect for their traditions , heritage and culture

  30. #30
    His higness, the Sultan Member Randarkmaan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fascism

    Aw come on you have to admire their respect for their traditions , heritage and culture
    Yeah, I know we can't let them filthy money grabbing jews defile our blond nation and we have to turn to our old gods for protection against these eastern filth! (Sarcastic smilie inserted for the google-spider's edification; let's remember that what's said on the web, doesn't stay of the web, gents)

    Crazy, eh? But that's how many people are, good they are so few and that they don't have the guts to do anything for real. Sort of like the old AKP-ml fellows, lots of talking about the revolution, but not really doing anything serious. Which is a good thing for everyone else actually.

    Horetore whats happened to the Nasjonal Samling website , my link to it comes up as "site suspended" ? Same with a lot of the US and german groups I have links for , even Vanguard have got rid of their links section .
    Oh well its back to that routine of waiting in the forums laughing at the rubbish till some idiot posts new links again
    Try Stormfront community, those wackos are probably still up, ofcourse they are not "National Socialist" (notice how the guys who use this term and never "nazi" often are nazis) or "Fascist" but "White Nationalist". I think one of the guys who runs that site was a KKK grand wizard or something and he also attempted to invade Cuba!
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 03-20-2007 at 03:34.
    "One of the nice things about looking at a bear is that you know it spends 100 per cent of every minute of every day being a bear. It doesn't strive to become a better bear. It doesn't go to sleep thinking, "I wasn't really a very good bear today". They are just 100 per cent bear, whereas human beings feel we're not 100 per cent human, that we're always letting ourselves down. We're constantly striving towards something, to some fulfilment"
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