Wealth distribution

[Montmorency]

Well, someone has to automate all those jobs.

[HoreTore]

Well, someone has to automate all those jobs.

Yes, that's the glory of it all. I'll give a historical perspective even though I noticed your sarcasm-smileys

A few hundred years back, the majority of the population was employed in agriculture. Today, the number of farmers in industrial countries are extremely small, even though we are producing much more food now. The automation of agriculture removed a ton of farming jobs. This, however, didn't mean that nobody is employed today. The automation had two effects:

Firstly, jobs were created to make the machinery responsible for automating farming tasks.
Secondly, the abundance of available persons allowed the creation of new types of jobs.

It's the second one who is the most important one. A new reality creates new products and jobs.

[Ironside]

Yes, that's the glory of it all. I'll give a historical perspective even though I noticed your sarcasm-smileys

A few hundred years back, the majority of the population was employed in agriculture. Today, the number of farmers in industrial countries are extremely small, even though we are producing much more food now. The automation of agriculture removed a ton of farming jobs. This, however, didn't mean that nobody is employed today. The automation had two effects:

Firstly, jobs were created to make the machinery responsible for automating farming tasks.
Secondly, the abundance of available persons allowed the creation of new types of jobs.

It's the second one who is the most important one. A new reality creates new products and jobs.

The issue is that there's need to be something new this time, rather than an old section expanded. When service jobs are getting automated, what is next? I don't doubt that production and total wealth has gone up in the process, it's just that there's no default idea that the increased wealth by a job creates new jobs in a sufficient ratio to sustain full employment.

[HoreTore]

The issue is that there's need to be something new this time, rather than an old section expanded. When service jobs are getting automated, what is next? I don't doubt that production and total wealth has gone up in the process, it's just that there's no default idea that the increased wealth by a job creates new jobs in a sufficient ratio to sustain full employment.

Luckily, we're not employed as oracles, so there's no need for us to try to predict the future. Attempting to do so will fail anyway.

But since this is what has happened in every change of production in human history up until this point, I see no reason why the same shouldn't happen this time.

[Montmorency]

Well, the sun rises every day, so we can expect that to go on for eternity, right?

[HoreTore]

Well, the sun rises every day, so we can expect that to go on for eternity, right?

As far as we are concerned, yes....

[Montmorency]

On the other hand, human events move a few orders of magnitude more quickly than the sun...

[Ironside]

Luckily, we're not employed as oracles, so there's no need for us to try to predict the future. Attempting to do so will fail anyway.

But since this is what has happened in every change of production in human history up until this point, I see no reason why the same shouldn't happen this time.

Each change has also brought significant changes to society. The change going from industry to service is the smallest of them and the easiest one to predict as well.

That's the thing we're talking about. Will things solve themselves? Yes, eventually. But the lack of clear goals means that you'll need to do it through experience. Experience in these cases means a bucket load of conflicts.

To follow up on what PJ said. There's certainly nothing surprising if the current model of capitalism falls, it's from the 1930-ties (Fordism) if you stretch it a bit. But its fall will not be buissness as usual for those who experience it, even if those living in 2200 sees it that way through the historical lens.

[HoreTore]

Each change has also brought significant changes to society. The change going from industry to service is the smallest of them and the easiest one to predict as well.

That's the thing we're talking about. Will things solve themselves? Yes, eventually. But the lack of clear goals means that you'll need to do it through experience. Experience in these cases means a bucket load of conflicts.

To follow up on what PJ said. There's certainly nothing surprising if the current model of capitalism falls, it's from the 1930-ties (Fordism) if you stretch it a bit. But its fall will not be buissness as usual for those who experience it, even if those living in 2200 sees it that way through the historical lens.

Conflict is a natural part of human life. It is to be expected. It's also to be expected that we live through it and create a new system which will eventually break down into conflict and so on and so on.

[Husar]

Well, labor costs are high but energy costs will also rise in the long run, additionally the costs to acquire complicated machines rise and computers cannot fully simulate a human brain yet.
Once the latter is possible however, we can automate management positions and save a whole lot of money because robots do not need a wage and certainly not a golden parachute when they have failed horribly. The money this frees up can then be used to distribute to the homeless. Once the entire industry has been automated, we will need neither jobs or employment nor money because the machines will just keep everything going while we consume the fruits of their free labor. We'll have to find another way to discern important humans and unworthy ones though, maybe a return of noble families?

[Ironside]

Conflict is a natural part of human life. It is to be expected. It's also to be expected that we live through it and create a new system which will eventually break down into conflict and so on and so on.

That's true. The thing with this one is what Husar is into a bit. It's quite possible that you reach a situation where only 20-30% (or less) of the population has jobs that needs to be done. The rest is obsolete.

Their relation with the rest of the population isn't gonna be solved with the current system.