Today is a happy day

[HoreTore]

Hack charged with hackery.

May he be the first of many to face the proper consequences of the nonsense they spew. I don't have any illusions that this will signal a wave of such arrests, but I can still hope.

The hacks spreading lies about vaccinations, cancer treatment and many other forms of medicine are indirectly responsible for the deaths of several unfortunate, desperate and slightly gullible people. It's time they get what they deserve.

[Fragony]

Don't think this will fly, in the end it's a diet. The charges are probably too heavy to get anything out of it.

[Husar]

Government overreach.

These fascists have no business telling people what medicine to offer or to take.

He can also claim what he wants because of free speech.

[HoreTore]

Government overreach.

These fascists have no business telling people what medicine to offer or to take.

He can also claim what he wants because of free speech.

Fortunately, the US is a first world country with proper laws to deal with quacks. While it may be a tad too much to ban stupidity, you can at least ban fraud. It's a shame Norway's laws on this are too lenient, here you can basically do whatever you want as long as you do not make explicit medical claims.

[Husar]

Fortunately, the US is a first world country with proper laws to deal with quacks. While it may be a tad too much to ban stupidity, you can at least ban fraud. It's a shame Norway's laws on this are too lenient, here you can basically do whatever you want as long as you do not make explicit medical claims.

Fraud doesn't exist and you do not need to ban stupidity, you do not have to ban anything. The strong and clever ones will survive and the market will decide what's right. Everybody will profit from this except the ones who don't deserve it.

[HoreTore]

Fraud doesn't exist and you do not need to ban stupidity, you do not have to ban anything. The strong and clever ones will survive and the market will decide what's right. Everybody will profit from this except the ones who don't deserve it.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

[Greyblades]

I have got to get around to reading that wealth distribution thread, it seems to have turned husar into randy marsh

[Myth]

It's been proven that viruses and cancer thrive in an acidic environment and don't fare well in an alkaline one. The foods that make you body more alkaline are generally more healthy than those that make it more acidic. Eating lemons, leafy greens and such is fine IMO. Charging 2500 dollars a night for studies and ideas not even your own (this thing has been known for a while now) - that's scamming.

It's a subject that I'm suspicious of. We hear about cures for cancer and cars running on tap water, yet always something happens and they never see the light of day. Are they scams, or is someone removing discoveries that would undercut profit? Don't know. Might be getting into tin foil hat land here, but I always keep some doubt in the back of my head.

[HoreTore]

They're scams, of course they are. The "discoveries" are nothing more than hoaxes, scams and pseudoscience dreamt up in drug-induced hallucinations.

Also, you advocate an alkaline diet, and recommend "eating lemons"? With a ph value of 2...?

This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge. Thus, we end up with outbreaks of diseases we eradicated 50 years ago because people think vaccines are bad, people killing themselves by refusing cancer treatment because all they need to do is eat green and other such nonsense.

Give me another Hitler, we're in need of another genocide. But leave the jews alone this time 'round...

[Husar]

They're scams, of course they are. The "discoveries" are nothing more than hoaxes, scams and pseudoscience dreamt up in drug-induced hallucinations.

Also, you advocate an alkaline diet, and recommend "eating lemons"? With a ph value of 2...?

This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge. Thus, we end up with outbreaks of diseases we eradicated 50 years ago because people think vaccines are bad, people killing themselves by refusing cancer treatment because all they need to do is eat green and other such nonsense.

Give me another Hitler, we're in need of another genocide. But leave the jews alone this time 'round...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

[HoreTore]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

There's no parody, irony or sarcasm in my post.

[Fragony]

They're scams, of course they are. The "discoveries" are nothing more than hoaxes, scams and pseudoscience dreamt up in drug-induced hallucinations.

Also, you advocate an alkaline diet, and recommend "eating lemons"? With a ph value of 2...?

This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge. Thus, we end up with outbreaks of diseases we eradicated 50 years ago because people think vaccines are bad, people killing themselves by refusing cancer treatment because all they need to do is eat green and other such nonsense.

Give me another Hitler, we're in need of another genocide. But leave the jews alone this time 'round...

Alternative treatments can work sometimes. Ever heard about a doctor who prescribed seasalt to people who are plagued by migraines or cluster-headaches, yet it works, allready worked in ancient Persia, it was a common remedy at the time. The peope who go to charlatans have probably been given up allready, and it's disgusting that some feed on their misery, but not all alternative methods are bull, they just haven't been recognised by people who often have ties with the pharmaceutical industry.

[rvg]

...Young's "pH Miracle Retreat" offers nightly rates from $1295 to $2495 per night. The rate includes lodging, meals, supplements, and therapies...

There's a guy making money off of selling holistic crap treatment to bored rich folks? In california? Somebdy alert the CNN!!!!

[Myth]

I'm not too hot on the cancer treatment we have today. Ingesting poison that gives you cancer anyway is the way to fight the disease? Cancer treatment is outrageously expensive and the results are unsatisfactory. How is refusing it "killing one self" when you die with cancer treatment anyway?

This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge.

Well I haven't bothered to do more research than going online, but this is what i've gotten. Might be wrong, I'm no biochemist.

There is often misunderstanding of lemon’s pH outside the body versus inside the body. Let’s get this straight and expound on 10 benefits of regularly taking lemon juice with warm water (note: NOT equal to lemonade!)

Outside the body, lemon juice is acidic (pH is below 7). This is a non-issue. Everyone knows this. It’s a citrus fruit.

Inside the body however, when lemon juice has been fully metabolized and its minerals are dissociated in the bloodstream, its effect is alkalizing and therefore raises the pH of the blood (pH above 7 is alkaline). Please notice the difference.

[Pannonian]

It's been proven that viruses and cancer thrive in an acidic environment and don't fare well in an alkaline one. The foods that make you body more alkaline are generally more healthy than those that make it more acidic. Eating lemons, leafy greens and such is fine IMO.

I assume this is summarising the arguments of the scammer, rather than conventional wisdom. What I'd like to know about these arguments is, how would anything of this sort target only nasty germs? Surely if they harm germs, they harm all organisms alike, whether harmful or beneficial. Which would include the body's own native cells.

[Ironside]

I'm not too hot on the cancer treatment we have today. Ingesting poison that gives you cancer anyway is the way to fight the disease? Cancer treatment is outrageously expensive and the results are unsatisfactory. How is refusing it "killing one self" when you die with cancer treatment anyway?

It has to do with that cancer is made up by the same cells as the rest of the body. They just act in a way they shouldn't, making them slightly more sensitive to some substances.
Think of it as having a white t-shirt with blue spots on it from the manufacturer. Suddenly these blue spots are dangerous and has to be removed. And that without damaging the white in any way.

There is often misunderstanding of lemon’s pH outside the body versus inside the body. Let’s get this straight and expound on 10 benefits of regularly taking lemon juice with warm water (note: NOT equal to lemonade!)

Outside the body, lemon juice is acidic (pH is below 7). This is a non-issue. Everyone knows this. It’s a citrus fruit.

Inside the body however, when lemon juice has been fully metabolized and its minerals are dissociated in the bloodstream, its effect is alkalizing and therefore raises the pH of the blood (pH above 7 is alkaline). Please notice the difference.

That one is complete bullshit.
Lemon juice doesn't contain any particular minerals that isn't common in other products. It's healthy, but plenty of products got more of those minerals.

Blood is massively pH buffered. Because if it wasn't you'll die. pH is supposed to be at 7,4 (range 7,35-7,45). 7,9 is lethal.

[Tellos Athenaios]

This seems appropriate:

[Fragony]

I assume this is summarising the arguments of the scammer, rather than conventional wisdom. What I'd like to know about these arguments is, how would anything of this sort target only nasty germs? Surely if they harm germs, they harm all organisms alike, whether harmful or beneficial. Which would include the body's own native cells.

Cells have different ph-levels depending on where they are situated because various organs filter things out, it isn't that far of a stretch. Not saying that he isn't a scammer but theoratically I wouldn't call it impossible.

[HoreTore]

Alternative treatments can work sometimes. Ever heard about a doctor who prescribed seasalt to people who are plagued by migraines or cluster-headaches, yet it works, allready worked in ancient Persia, it was a common remedy at the time. The peope who go to charlatans have probably been given up allready, and it's disgusting that some feed on their misery, but not all alternative methods are bull, they just haven't been recognised by people who often have ties with the pharmaceutical industry.

Alternative treatments that actually work is called "medicine". Everything else is placebo at best.

I'm not too hot on the cancer treatment we have today. Ingesting poison that gives you cancer anyway is the way to fight the disease? Cancer treatment is outrageously expensive and the results are unsatisfactory. How is refusing it "killing one self" when you die with cancer treatment anyway?

When someone who would otherwise seek cancer treatment is tricked/conned/lied to by some charlatan who makes that person believe that silver water is the ultimate way to fight cancer and that regular cancer treatment is a hoax, I consider it appropriate to say the charlatan has blood on his/her hands.

As for the terminally ill, that's just a scam. The person is going to die anyway, so it's not murder, but how ethical is it to steal money from dying people...?

Well I haven't bothered to do more research than going online, but this is what i've gotten. Might be wrong, I'm no biochemist.

Yeah, I dug around a little to find the cause of this absurd claim. I showed what I found to my biologist colleague. Her reaction was simple:

"Nonsense".

If you want a lengthier answer, have some Livestrong. (he knows his drugs)

Your research method highlights the fundamental problem today: the University of Youtube. The internet is so full of utter nonsense and outright lies that it's impossible to gain any knowledge from it on its own. Youtube and related sites lowers your intelligence, it doesn't add to it. Stay away, and join uni instead.

Cells have different ph-levels depending on where they are situated because various organs filter things out, it isn't that far of a stretch. Not saying that he isn't a scammer but theoratically I wouldn't call it impossible.

Then I suggest you get some new theories. It's rubbish.

[Pannonian]

When someone who would otherwise seek cancer treatment is tricked/conned/lied to by some charlatan who makes that person believe that silver water is the ultimate way to fight cancer and that regular cancer treatment is a hoax, I consider it appropriate to say the charlatan has blood on his/her hands.

Does colloidal silver actually work for anything? It sounds distinctly dodgy to me, like those old medicines that purported to work better the smellier they were.

[Fragony]

lol Horrie, did you really just suggest a placebo-effect that works against cancer. Talk about new theories.

It's basic biology that ph-levels vary depending on the position of the cells, after the kidney, after the liver, incredible isn't it.

[HoreTore]

Does colloidal silver actually work for anything? It sounds distinctly dodgy to me, like those old medicines that purported to work better the smellier they were.

Nope, it doesn't. Unless you want to look blue, that is.

lol Horrie, did you really just suggest a placebo-effect that works against cancer. Talk about new theories.

I did not. I said "at best" a placebo. The alternative medicine cancer treatment is properly labeled "a scam".

[Fragony]

Read up on what the placebo effect is with conventional medicine. About just the same as it is with alternative treatments. A proper diet COULD target specific cells in theory. If it actually does I don't know. But the placebo effect is psycholigical, not physical. It has no place here.

Edit, worded that badly by the way, I didn't specifically mean cancer. But there is hardly any difference between the placebo-effect between conventional methods and alternative methods in general.

[Kadagar_AV]

Alternative treatments that actually work is called "medicine". Everything else is placebo at best.



When someone who would otherwise seek cancer treatment is tricked/conned/lied to by some charlatan who makes that person believe that silver water is the ultimate way to fight cancer and that regular cancer treatment is a hoax, I consider it appropriate to say the charlatan has blood on his/her hands.

As for the terminally ill, that's just a scam. The person is going to die anyway, so it's not murder, but how ethical is it to steal money from dying people...?



Yeah, I dug around a little to find the cause of this absurd claim. I showed what I found to my biologist colleague. Her reaction was simple:

"Nonsense".

If you want a lengthier answer, have some Livestrong. (he knows his drugs)

Your research method highlights the fundamental problem today: the University of Youtube. The internet is so full of utter nonsense and outright lies that it's impossible to gain any knowledge from it on its own. Youtube and related sites lowers your intelligence, it doesn't add to it. Stay away, and join uni instead.



Then I suggest you get some new theories. It's rubbish.

There is a lot of **** on the internet, as well as truths.

At university, it is the same. But state sponsored **** and truths.

Coming from Norway you should know this first hand, as few universities in the western world has sprouted as much **** as Norwegian ones. Specially when it comes to feminism and multiculturalism.

You watched Hjernevask?

[HoreTore]

There is a lot of **** on the internet, as well as truths.

At university, it is the same. But state sponsored **** and truths.

Coming from Norway you should know this first hand, as few universities in the western world has sprouted as much **** as Norwegian ones. Specially when it comes to feminism and multiculturalism.

At uni, you will learn research methods as well as actual knowledge. You'll learn neither from the University of Youtube.

And the subject of this thread concerns the hard sciences, not multiculturalism and feminism.

You watched Hjernevask?

No. I prefer to stay away from both post-modernism and the public showcasing of a man in a desperate mid-life crisis.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

....And the subject of this thread concerns the hard sciences, not multiculturalism and feminism....

Why don't those too qualify? It would be very "hard" to label them "sciences" no?

[Pannonian]

Read up on what the placebo effect is with conventional medicine. About just the same as it is with alternative treatments. A proper diet COULD target specific cells in theory. If it actually does I don't know. But the placebo effect is psycholigical, not physical. It has no place here.

Edit, worded that badly by the way, I didn't specifically mean cancer. But there is hardly any difference between the placebo-effect between conventional methods and alternative methods in general.

Conventional placebos are much cheaper and designed to have no ill effects. Alternative medicine placebos are much more expensive and are designed to be different. One is designed to give you peace of mind at minimal cost and risk. The other is designed to relieve you of as much money as possible.

[Kadagar_AV]

At uni, you will learn research methods as well as actual knowledge. You'll learn neither from the University of Youtube.

And the subject of this thread concerns the hard sciences, not multiculturalism and feminism.

The problem with science remains. Be it "hard" or other types. Why differentiate anyway??? Science is science, no?

No. I prefer to stay away from both post-modernism and the public showcasing of a man in a desperate mid-life crisis.

Post-modernistic desperate men can - even during a mid-life crisis - be a torch of enlightenment in the otherwise dark and bitter Norwegian intellectualism...

I have no idea who the guy who made that show is, but he sure made quite some of your university peeps come off as quite retarded.

[Pannonian]

The problem with science remains. Be it "hard" or other types. Why differentiate anyway??? Science is science, no?

Do "soft" sciences have repeatable experiments and results?

[Kadagar_AV]

Do "soft" sciences have repeatable experiments and results?

Uhu

Way more advanced, of course. But still, yeah, no difference.