Switzerland: Multi-tool acceptable, multiculture not.

[GenosseGeneral]

Well, as a country of about 8 million, Switze%rland is home to about 2 million foreigners. That is about 25 % of the overall population.
The largest groups are Germans and Italians, both numbering somewhere around 300.000. Mostly, these are highly educated people who have moved to Switzerland because salaries are extremely high (I have been told, the average.worker at McDonald's in Zürich makes 27.5 Franks/hour - that is about the same in USD or a bit more than 20 Euros).
So since Switzerland is extremely wealthy, offers a high standard of living and is a part of Schengen, a good deal of people want to make use of that chance.
I am living a 10 min walk from the border, and guess where I look for a job for the upcoming holidays…

Anyway, as the Swiss always liked to point out that they are no Germans, Italians or French but Swiss, there are a lot of people complaining about how the country is flooded by foreigners, who do not know Swiss customs or who do not know the Swiss dialect. (The German-speaking Swiss have a very distinctive dialect.) Also they complained about trains being crowded because of too many foreigners and so on
Well and somehow, the Swiss people's party, has managed to get 50.3 % of Swiss to vote in favor of a proposition to limit immigration in order 'to keep Switzerland Swiss'.
Interestingly, this was favored most in rural and in German-speaking areas.

From my point of view, it is their choice. However not a smart one. By limiting immigration, your doctor will not learn your dialect. He simply won't be there next time.
Also, a lot of companies, especially high-tech ones, employ up to 60-80% foreigners. With this proposition passed, they will have to prove for every single one, that there was no Swiss person who could do his job.
So in the end, the Swiss will have to pay a price for their decision, a price to be paid in standard of living and prosperity.

[Fragony]

From my point of view, it is their choice. However not a smart one.

Indeed. It's a perfect deal for the Swiss. They get educated people basicly for free, they didn't have to pay a cent for their education, giving a good salary is a bargain when you consider that. They are in a very sweet spot.

[Beskar]

Here is a summary of the thread so far:

Kadagar: Those swiss passed an EU only immigration bill! it is to keep out those black people! Here is some unrelated study to show that blacks are inferior again! Freedom of speech!
rvg: I don't know about the subject, but its their choice!
HoreTore: Wait.. Swiss has a monoculture?
Everyone else: Erm... it is to stop talented white German and other European high-flyers from getting the best jobs.
Kadagar: Yeah but, no but, yeah but.. BLACK PEOPLE AND GYPSIES
Fragony: Sorry but these are highly educated professionals we are talking about..
Everyone Else: *Stories and information to prove this point*

Did you research this subject at all or are you simply trying to find another excuse to bring up the 'evils' of Black people again?

The reason you got an infraction last time was because you kept spouting the same stuff when you were requested to stop, by an admin no less.

[Husar]

Except that the EU thinks that Switzerland cannot cherry-pick how it is a leech on the EU. They will have to re-negotiate some contracts and if they do not want free trade in jobs, the EU may not want free trade with Switzerland any more at all. And who could blame the EU for not wanting Switzerland to get all the benefits while the EU only loses?

[Fragony]

Except that the EU thinks that Switzerland cannot cherry-pick how it is a leech on the EU. They will have to re-negotiate some contracts and if they do not want free trade in jobs, the EU may not want free trade with Switzerland any more at all. And who could blame the EU for not wanting Switzerland to get all the benefits while the EU only loses?

They have jobs people want, what's the problem. They don't have to bother with the immigration-quota of the EU, and countless other rules that are not in their interest. The EU loses ha, whatever the EU loses, the democratic nation-state wins.

[Husar]

They have jobs people want, what's the problem. They don't have to bother with the immigration-quota of the EU, and countless other rules that are not in their interest. The EU loses ha, whatever the EU loses, the democratic nation-state wins.

No nation-state exists in a vacuum, Swiss people come to Germany to buy food because their food prices are as high as their wages. If the EU makes such things a lot harder, e.g. by closing the borders to Switzerland or making trade between EU countries and Switzerland harder or more expensive, then the Swiss will get their very own problems. How about we do not let any airplanes in or out any more? After all, Switzerland doesn't want to cooperate, so why would we let planes to or from there blow dirt into our precious fresh air on their way through?

[Fragony]

No nation-state exists in a vacuum, Swiss people come to Germany to buy food because their food prices are as high as their wages. If the EU makes such things a lot harder, e.g. by closing the borders to Switzerland or making trade between EU countries and Switzerland harder or more expensive, then the Swiss will get their very own problems. How about we do not let any airplanes in or out any more? After all, Switzerland doesn't want to cooperate, so why would we let planes to or from there blow dirt into our precious fresh air on their way through?

Why would we want to harass the Swiss with any of that? We can just cooperate, no problem. If they can buy cheaper in Germany so what, benefits everyone. The EU acts like b*tch turned down if it doesn't get it's way, and what the EU wants is scary as hell. Switserland is a democracy, a concept totally alien to eurocrats, it just gets in their way, the EU is an ultra-undemocratic institution runned by an unelected Flemish ferret who looks like an owl who just dropped from it's tree, an unelected German booksalesman, good after the war and full-time godwin-cannon, and his unelected Portugese waiter. Go Switzerland, where they still listen to their population.

[Husar]

Why would we want to harass the Swiss with any of that? We can just cooperate, no problem. If they can buy cheaper in Germany so what, benefits everyone. The EU acts like b*tch turned down if it doesn't get it's way, and what the EU wants is scary as hell. Switserland is a democracy, a concept totally alien to eurocrats, it just gets in their way, the EU is an ultra-undemocratic institution runned by an unelected Flemish ferret who looks like an owl who just dropped from it's tree, an unelected German booksalesman, good after the war and full-time godwin-cannon, and his unelected Portugese waiter. Go Switzerland, where they still listen to their population.

Switzerland signed contracts with the EU you know, contracts where they let people in to look for jobs in return for other benefits.
Now they do not want these contracts any more, at least not the ones where they owe us anything, so why should we keep the ones where we owe them anything? The EU can only act like a ***** because Switzerland is trying to make the EU its ***** by cherry-picking the contracts it wants to uphold.
Why would the EU give Switzerland benefits for nothing in return?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, I suppose some French real estate agents will be happy.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well, as a country of about 8 million, Switze%rland is home to about 2 million foreigners. That is about 25 % of the overall population.
The largest groups are Germans and Italians, both numbering somewhere around 300.000. Mostly, these are highly educated people who have moved to Switzerland because salaries are extremely high (I have been told, the average.worker at McDonald's in Zürich makes 27.5 Franks/hour - that is about the same in USD or a bit more than 20 Euros).
So since Switzerland is extremely wealthy, offers a high standard of living and is a part of Schengen, a good deal of people want to make use of that chance.
I am living a 10 min walk from the border, and guess where I look for a job for the upcoming holidays…

Anyway, as the Swiss always liked to point out that they are no Germans, Italians or French but Swiss, there are a lot of people complaining about how the country is flooded by foreigners, who do not know Swiss customs or who do not know the Swiss dialect. (The German-speaking Swiss have a very distinctive dialect.) Also they complained about trains being crowded because of too many foreigners and so on
Well and somehow, the Swiss people's party, has managed to get 50.3 % of Swiss to vote in favor of a proposition to limit immigration in order 'to keep Switzerland Swiss'.
Interestingly, this was favored most in rural and in German-speaking areas.

From my point of view, it is their choice. However not a smart one. By limiting immigration, your doctor will not learn your dialect. He simply won't be there next time.
Also, a lot of companies, especially high-tech ones, employ up to 60-80% foreigners. With this proposition passed, they will have to prove for every single one, that there was no Swiss person who could do his job.
So in the end, the Swiss will have to pay a price for their decision, a price to be paid in standard of living and prosperity.

I worked in Switzerland before, when they already had these laws.

Boss of the ski school made an insert in the local newspaper (to conform to the demands), that he needed a ski instructor, 187cm tall, qualified Alpine instructor with a history degree and who was fluid in Swedish. Oh, and he needed to be ranked Sgt. or more in the army as well.

Guess what? I GOT THE JOB!!

Don't underestimate the Swiss, they can still get the people they want, even WHILE keeping the trash out.

[Husar]

I worked in Switzerland before, when they already had these laws.

Boss of the ski school made an insert in the local newspaper (to conform to the demands), that he needed a ski instructor, 187cm tall, qualified Alpine instructor with a history degree and who was fluid in Swedish. Oh, and he needed to be ranked Sgt. or more in the army as well.

Guess what? I GOT THE JOB!!

So you already circumvented the will of the people that you applauded before? Congratulations! How did it feel to get some corrupt preferential treatment and not to be discriminated against? What if the boss of a factory asks for a guy who is 175cm tall, fluid in Congolese and a practicing muslim?

Don't underestimate the Swiss, they can still get the people they want, even WHILE keeping the trash out.

Not according to my definition of trash.

[Kadagar_AV]

So you already circumvented the will of the people that you applauded before? Congratulations! How did it feel to get some corrupt preferential treatment and not to be discriminated against? What if the boss of a factory asks for a guy who is 175cm tall, fluid in Congolese and a practicing muslim?

Uh... As I got it, that was the will of the people.

I didn't "circumvent" it, they precisely had these laws to keep some in, and some out. Without having to openly state they don't want... Whatever it is that people might not want in their western country.

As to your definition of trash... I guess we all have our own definitions of what is trash and not.