Switzerland: Multi-tool acceptable, multiculture not.

[Kadagar_AV]

So...

Switzerland just said "no" to immigration (more or less). They held a public vote, and it turns out the people of Switzerland wanted the country to remain, you know, "Swiss".

I feel a bit weird here... Honestly speaking.

Last I posted about immigration I got a temp-ban. Not because what I wrote was offensive or even wrong (unless facts are suddenly offensive and wrong), but because, you know... People might be upset.

So... Oh well, I will give it one last shot.


This report >>>http://www.ibc7.org/article/journal_v.php?sid=312<<< might have had some to do with it, as it became known at around the same time in German speaking nations (as well as my ban).

The report basically give the eggheads and other neo-nazis right in some regards. Long story short, it states that African genes lack... Uh... I'll just let you guess as I would like to at least be able to finish this thread before I get a perm-ban.


To discuss:
* How about Switzerland's decision?
* "If" there are anomalies found in our very DNA between geographical groups, how are we as an inclusive society to deal with it when it comes to itchy factors like IQ?



I know mods put quite a lot of hate on me last time... But seriously, this is THE political questions in many countries, mine included. If you can't talk political things on a political board... Then I guess I'll just bow out.

Heck, as mentioned, Switzerland just had a public vote on it. Swedens election in some months are all about it.

THESE THINGS SHOULD BE OPENLY DISCUSSED, THEY SHOULD NOT BE HIDDEN OR BANNED FROM PUBLIC VIEW.

[rvg]

Switzerland must be banned from these forums. My fellow orgahs, if you happen to be Swiss please cancel your account. Thank you.

[Kadagar_AV]

Switzerland must be banned from these forums. My fellow orgahs, if you happen to be Swiss please cancel your account. Thank you.

Don't you just KNOW something is awkward when quite possibly the LEAST disagreeable nation of the world smell something rotten...

[HoreTore]

Yes.

Africans and Asian have ruined Switzerland. That's why it's a brilliant idea to block Poles and Frenchmen from entering.

What brilliant logic!!!

What else could one expect from the braindead?

[rvg]

They refuse to bury their heads in the sand. I respect that.

[Kadagar_AV]

Yes.

Africans and Asian have ruined Switzerland. That's why it's a brilliant idea to block Poles and Frenchmen from entering.

What brilliant logic!!!

What else could one expect from the braindead?

Honestly HT, I think they voted against Gypsies and Africans more than the Poles and the French... No?

[HoreTore]

Honestly HT, I think they voted against Gypsies and Africans more than the Poles and the French... No?

No, they did not.

They voted against immigration from the EU. They did not vote against immigration from Africa or Romania. Neither Africans, Asians nor Roma will be affected by this vote.

This is seriously the dumbest idea in the history of everything. A clear example of why representative democracy is better than direct democracy.

[Kadagar_AV]

No, they did not.

They voted against immigration from the EU. They did not vote against immigration from Africa or Romania.

This is seriously the dumbest idea in the history of everything.

Romania is not part of the EU? I feel bad for the kids you teach.

EDIT: It's true that the vote was about EU, but if you follow German speaking news, you will be able to tell that general immigration had a LOT to do with the decision at large. If for no other reason that they now can say "no" to the Swedish Africans... You know, since we in the EU started to hand out citizenship - you can be a "swede" and still, say, an African war criminal. Cool, huh?

[rvg]

This is seriously the dumbest idea in the history of everything. A clear example of why representative democracy is better than direct democracy.

It only makes sense considering that Switzerland is surrounded by the EU. Not much point to limiting immigration from Mongolia when you're Swiss.

[HoreTore]

Romania is not part of the EU? I feel bad for the kids you teach.

I feel bad for your uninformed gibberish.

Romania is a part of the EU. It is not a part of the Schengen area.

Seriously. Get some knowledge.

[HoreTore]

It only makes sense considering that Switzerland is surrounded by the EU. Not much point to limiting immigration from Mongolia when you're Swiss.

Refugees and asylum seekers arrive directly in Switzerland, and so is not affected by a ban of EU nationals.

[Kadagar_AV]

I feel bad for your uninformed gibberish.

Romania is a part of the EU. It is not a part of the Schengen area.

Seriously. Get some knowledge.

DUDE.

If you alter your text... You cant flame people based on the altered text, when they answered the unaltered text.

... doh!?

[HoreTore]

DUDE.

If you alter your text... You cant flame people based on the altered text, when they answered the unaltered text.

... doh!?

What I added did not change the meaning of my post one bit. Stop your crying, woman.

As for what you added: I have no doubt that the people who voted in favour of this rubbish wanted to vote against Africans, muslims, and all that. The hilarity is that this vote does not affect them whatsoever.

What they have done is ban EU nationals, ie. people like me and you. If they want a Swede moving to Switzerland, they have to accept the Swede with African origins same as the ethnic Swede. Don't want African Swedes? Then you can't get ethnic swedes.

[rvg]

Refugees and asylum seekers arrive directly in Switzerland, and so is not affected by a ban of EU nationals.

The Swiss aren't stupid. If they banned immigration from EU, it means that most of the undesirables were coming from within the EU. Guys who have the best banks, make the best cheese, best watches and the best chocolate would know what's best for them.

[HoreTore]

The Swiss aren't stupid. If they banned immigration from EU, it means that most of the undesirables were coming from within the EU. Guys who have the best banks, make the best cheese, best watches and the best chocolate would know what's best for them.

You give them far too much credit, I'm afraid.

EDIT: On second thought.... Kadagar is an EU national who has lived in Switzerland, isn't he? I think I'm starting to understand their vote....

[Kadagar_AV]

What I added did not change the meaning of my post one bit. Stop your crying, woman.

As for what you added: I have no doubt that the people who voted in favour of this rubbish wanted to vote against Africans, muslims, and all that. The hilarity is that this vote does not affect them whatsoever.

What they have done is ban EU nationals, ie. people like me and you. If they want a Swede moving to Switzerland, they have to accept the Swede with African origins same as the ethnic Swede. Don't want African Swedes? Then you can't get ethnic swedes.

It changed the whole meaning of your post, silly.

Anyway, You are wrong. I could spend time explaining why, but I would like to hear from some others instead of debating a Norwegian high on oil fumes

[HoreTore]

It changed the whole meaning of your post, silly.

Please explain how the following two sentences:

Neither Africans, Asians nor Roma will be affected by this vote.

A clear example of why representative democracy is better than direct democracy.

..."changed the whole meaning of my post". I'm dying in anticipation.

Anyway, You are wrong.

I see you have reached the limit of your intelligence already, and can no longer come up with an argument. Sooner than I had anticipated. Must be some African blood in your veins, according to the OP....

[HoreTore]

Also, I feel a need to comment on the absolutely hilarious thread title. Multiculture not accepted in Switzerland? Switzerland...? The European country based on four different cultures, who never adopted a monoculture like the rest of us did...?

[Husar]

This report >>>http://www.ibc7.org/article/journal_v.php?sid=312<<< might have had some to do with it, as it became known at around the same time in German speaking nations (as well as my ban).

Does that report even account for other factors or does it just assume there is a direct correlation between genes and IQ?
I don't have time to read it all at 2am.

Don't you just KNOW something is awkward when quite possibly the LEAST disagreeable nation of the world smell something rotten...

The least disagreeable nation? Surely that's sarcasm when we're talking about the nation that thrives from hiding nazi and dictator gold and helping everybody from the surrounding countries to hide their taxable income. I have no idea where you get this least disagreeable notion from, half of that country is a parasite on the rest of Europe.

Honestly HT, I think they voted against Gypsies and Africans more than the Poles and the French... No?

No, it's against Germans: http://www.thelocal.de/20120426/42177
http://www.theguardian.com/world/200...y.kateconnolly

[Kadagar_AV]

Does that report even account for other factors or does it just assume there is a direct correlation between genes and IQ?
I don't have time to read it all at 2am.

It doesn't account for any factors.

It looks at genes held in prospering students. They then checked where these genes could be found geographically (alternatively could NOT be found). So, really, there are no "factors" here, as we are so used to be able to hide behind when we discuss immigration policies.

[Kagemusha]

So...

Switzerland just said "no" to immigration (more or less). They held a public vote, and it turns out the people of Switzerland wanted the country to remain, you know, "Swiss".

I feel a bit weird here... Honestly speaking.

Last I posted about immigration I got a temp-ban. Not because what I wrote was offensive or even wrong (unless facts are suddenly offensive and wrong), but because, you know... People might be upset.

So... Oh well, I will give it one last shot.


This report >>>http://www.ibc7.org/article/journal_v.php?sid=312<<< might have had some to do with it, as it became known at around the same time in German speaking nations (as well as my ban).

The report basically give the eggheads and other neo-nazis right in some regards. Long story short, it states that African genes lack... Uh... I'll just let you guess as I would like to at least be able to finish this thread before I get a perm-ban.


To discuss:
* How about Switzerland's decision?
* "If" there are anomalies found in our very DNA between geographical groups, how are we as an inclusive society to deal with it when it comes to itchy factors like IQ?



I know mods put quite a lot of hate on me last time... But seriously, this is THE political questions in many countries, mine included. If you can't talk political things on a political board... Then I guess I'll just bow out.

Heck, as mentioned, Switzerland just had a public vote on it. Swedens election in some months are all about it.

THESE THINGS SHOULD BE OPENLY DISCUSSED, THEY SHOULD NOT BE HIDDEN OR BANNED FROM PUBLIC VIEW.

And can you please explain what is Swiss or Switzerland? Multicultural Cantons having variety of languages bind together because of mutual interest maybe?

[Fragony]

Their country their rules. Should be noted that it's about work. These aren't immigrants that just rolled of the mountain but highly educated professionals we are talking about.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Just to clarify before this thread goes any further. Are we sure this anything to do with race or maybe the Swiss just want to keep real estate prices low by reducing demand?

[GenosseGeneral]

Well, as a country of about 8 million, Switze%rland is home to about 2 million foreigners. That is about 25 % of the overall population.
The largest groups are Germans and Italians, both numbering somewhere around 300.000. Mostly, these are highly educated people who have moved to Switzerland because salaries are extremely high (I have been told, the average.worker at McDonald's in Zürich makes 27.5 Franks/hour - that is about the same in USD or a bit more than 20 Euros).
So since Switzerland is extremely wealthy, offers a high standard of living and is a part of Schengen, a good deal of people want to make use of that chance.
I am living a 10 min walk from the border, and guess where I look for a job for the upcoming holidays…

Anyway, as the Swiss always liked to point out that they are no Germans, Italians or French but Swiss, there are a lot of people complaining about how the country is flooded by foreigners, who do not know Swiss customs or who do not know the Swiss dialect. (The German-speaking Swiss have a very distinctive dialect.) Also they complained about trains being crowded because of too many foreigners and so on
Well and somehow, the Swiss people's party, has managed to get 50.3 % of Swiss to vote in favor of a proposition to limit immigration in order 'to keep Switzerland Swiss'.
Interestingly, this was favored most in rural and in German-speaking areas.

From my point of view, it is their choice. However not a smart one. By limiting immigration, your doctor will not learn your dialect. He simply won't be there next time.
Also, a lot of companies, especially high-tech ones, employ up to 60-80% foreigners. With this proposition passed, they will have to prove for every single one, that there was no Swiss person who could do his job.
So in the end, the Swiss will have to pay a price for their decision, a price to be paid in standard of living and prosperity.

[Husar]

It doesn't account for any factors.

It looks at genes held in prospering students. They then checked where these genes could be found geographically (alternatively could NOT be found). So, really, there are no "factors" here, as we are so used to be able to hide behind when we discuss immigration policies.

That's still problematic because it doesn't prove these genes are the reason, it just shows a correlation and correlation does not equal causation. And even if it does, it could be the other way around. It has already been shown that certain life events of mothers can have an effect on the children they give birth to many years later. Life is a little bit more complicated than "they are dumb because they lack this gene" and there could be many reasons why they lack it, which could in turn affect the conclusions draw from the whole thing.

highly educated professionals we are talking about.

I already said we are talking about Germans.

Just to clarify before this thread goes any further. Are we sure this anything to do with race or maybe the Swiss just want to keep real estate prices low by reducing demand?

No, it's just this:

[Fragony]

From my point of view, it is their choice. However not a smart one.

Indeed. It's a perfect deal for the Swiss. They get educated people basicly for free, they didn't have to pay a cent for their education, giving a good salary is a bargain when you consider that. They are in a very sweet spot.

[Beskar]

Here is a summary of the thread so far:

Kadagar: Those swiss passed an EU only immigration bill! it is to keep out those black people! Here is some unrelated study to show that blacks are inferior again! Freedom of speech!
rvg: I don't know about the subject, but its their choice!
HoreTore: Wait.. Swiss has a monoculture?
Everyone else: Erm... it is to stop talented white German and other European high-flyers from getting the best jobs.
Kadagar: Yeah but, no but, yeah but.. BLACK PEOPLE AND GYPSIES
Fragony: Sorry but these are highly educated professionals we are talking about..
Everyone Else: *Stories and information to prove this point*

Did you research this subject at all or are you simply trying to find another excuse to bring up the 'evils' of Black people again?

The reason you got an infraction last time was because you kept spouting the same stuff when you were requested to stop, by an admin no less.

[Husar]

Except that the EU thinks that Switzerland cannot cherry-pick how it is a leech on the EU. They will have to re-negotiate some contracts and if they do not want free trade in jobs, the EU may not want free trade with Switzerland any more at all. And who could blame the EU for not wanting Switzerland to get all the benefits while the EU only loses?

[Fragony]

Except that the EU thinks that Switzerland cannot cherry-pick how it is a leech on the EU. They will have to re-negotiate some contracts and if they do not want free trade in jobs, the EU may not want free trade with Switzerland any more at all. And who could blame the EU for not wanting Switzerland to get all the benefits while the EU only loses?

They have jobs people want, what's the problem. They don't have to bother with the immigration-quota of the EU, and countless other rules that are not in their interest. The EU loses ha, whatever the EU loses, the democratic nation-state wins.

[Husar]

They have jobs people want, what's the problem. They don't have to bother with the immigration-quota of the EU, and countless other rules that are not in their interest. The EU loses ha, whatever the EU loses, the democratic nation-state wins.

No nation-state exists in a vacuum, Swiss people come to Germany to buy food because their food prices are as high as their wages. If the EU makes such things a lot harder, e.g. by closing the borders to Switzerland or making trade between EU countries and Switzerland harder or more expensive, then the Swiss will get their very own problems. How about we do not let any airplanes in or out any more? After all, Switzerland doesn't want to cooperate, so why would we let planes to or from there blow dirt into our precious fresh air on their way through?