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Thread: Wow! They really did make it harder.

  1. #31

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    That's kind of what I assumed based on your other comments, Broski. It really worked well.

    I had a chance to play a lot of turns on Sunday. I didn't go back in time to before my counter attack on the Mori and Ouchi, but did go back two turns to before the Ouchi sea landing, and was able to get my Ninja to sabotage their army before it got on the boat, in stead of sabotaging resources. My missionary was already on the way to cause a revolt, which was successful, so they stayed on their property and got weaker from revolts. The Mori and the next one over who also attacked my by sea also were weakened by half from missionary and ninja attacks. (The last clan was no big deal at all to defend against.)

    My Nambian Quarters is now built, and my first big ship is under construction. Also all three provinces that were not paying taxes have stabilized and are paying well now. My tax income covers all my regular expenses, and my island is secure (I think). Once I get naval dominance in my area, I will move on the mainland. I use trade income to grow economically, militarily, and technologically, but will keep my regular expenses low enough to be covered by taxes and foreign trade, so as long as I have the troops to defend realm divide, I should be fine.

    I am saving the Chosokabe's island until after realm divide to create four vassals to trade with once the rest of Japan turns against me.

    Let's hope it works. (Of course cheating by going back in time is the only thing that has made it possible.)

  2. #32

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    The only relevant problem that I am aware of is the fact that my last adult male family member has been killed, leaving the realm governed by a young son's regent, an "Ottomo hag". Nobody ever really liked my clan anyway, so it has less effect than with a Buddhist clan.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Got my first Nambian trade ship last night and it's AWESOME! It defeated a group of 9 ships handily. My second is under construction. Naval dominance is in the near future, so I can win. This is the second time I felt like I was winning, and the first in this game.

    The ship caught fire twice, and I had to run away and put it out. If I were being attacked, rather than attacking, they would have followed me and kept me burning. I wonder if I should follow the advice from Froggy and use only one by itself or add relief ships to the squadron. A full stack attacking me might have defeated the ship.

    The message announcing the Black ship has appeared. I am wondering if it will attack me, a christian, or jut buddhist clans. If it only attacks the other clans, I will not attempt to capture it so it can weaken the clans I am not yet at war with.

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  4. #34

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Unless they patched it, naval battles should be pretty straight forward.
    Maltz gives a couple good demonstrations of how easily the AI can be run into the ground (er...sea) by the player.
    I know I sound like a scratched record, but... :)

    Last edited by HopAlongBunny; 04-13-2014 at 13:44.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  5. #35

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Thanks, HopAlong. I use Maltz's bait tactics a bit. They don't really apply to the Nambian Trade ships, though. One ship against many with canon against arrows. The key with them is to be as far upwind on the map as possible when you engage and be able to go down wind most of the time as you maneuver. In that way you take some out, rout other, and slow the rest down, so when you reach the end of the map you can go back up wind without being set on fire, which seems to be the only risk of losing such battles.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    With three Nambian Trade Ships, my island is secure from sea attack. My invasion of the mainland has begun. The Ouchi are gone and the Mori are suing for peace. There will be no peace in out time for them.

    There are three major clans who are allied, the Takeda, the Oda, and the Hojo, which I refer to as the triad. The other relevant clan is the Chosocabe, who is not allied with the others and more friendly to me than they, although I am still trading with the Hojo. These four are all rated "Mighty" and "Affluent" as am I. Other clans seem to all be irrelevant.

    I am scrapping my plans to upgrade my military technology on my main island, because there appears to be so much to steal just in front of my advancing army, so why pay for it. It is better to put the money into economic improvements (I hope).

    Conquest is good.

  7. #37
    Member Member Sp4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    I have not actually finished a vanilla Shogun 2 campaign yet, it was that hard/annoying/infuriating.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    That's where I thought I was headed, Sp4. But I persevered and THINK I am winning now. There are two potential problems with my game. Realm Divide could be worse than I think, and / or it could take too long for me to conquer enough provinces to win. I read another thread where a player was winning, but unable to get enough provinces in the moves allowed, and my progress has been SLOW.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    OK, one other weakness will be the Chosocabe behind my front line at realm divide. They will be on their island, though. I just need to dedicate a ship to keep them from crossing. Then I will use their island to create vassals to trade with.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Sometimes they transport multiple armys on different routes in a single round, so don't be sure about that.

    Normaly it's no problem to get enough provinces before the time runs out. For short campaign you must be very slowy and for longer campaigns you must be extremly slowly. When you run out of time you can still send nearly everythink you have. Sometimes it makes sense to get no taxes from new provinces (sometimes taxes would bring less then the repression costs). Units can be used for repression in 2 provinces, even revolts can be used for temporary repression.

    So it should be no problem, but with the Otomo it may makes sense to hurry, cause that clan doesn't enable fast conquering. (starting area is good to defend, but bad to conquer something)

  11. #41

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Thanks Faker. I have never had that problem with other TW games, but read about it here.

    Over the weekend I eliminated the Mori, got up to 14 provinces, got into a war with the Oda, one of the three strongest clans, then beat them back on the sea and with my agents. They sued for peace, and I accepted with a trade agreement. Now I am the highest rated clan (rich as opposed to affluent) making 6-8K a turn. Only the Hojo are more powerful than me, "terrifying" as opposed to "mighty". They are also the farthest away of the three allied super clans. I have drawn the Shogun's Ire, when I reached 13 provinces. I had to take the 14'th to keep a front defensible by two stacks, but I'm stopping conquest until I build up some military strength and some more wealth. My taxes, other income, and foreign trade just cover my upkeep now. None of my armies is even a full stack, though. I am building my sixth Nambian Trade Ship now, so that may be all I need. Other ships are all captured from enemies. I have to scuttle them regularly because there are too many. All they are good for is scouting, transport, and trade disruption, anyway.

    I only cheated once for all this. When one of my generals defected on attacking the Mori, I went back in time and he didn't defect the second time. In previous TW games, they defected at end turn and became rebels or another faction. Now they do it when attacking! This will be a problem for me for some time as my oldest family member is 9. At what year do boys come of age?

  12. #42

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    I'm not sure, but i think 16 years. Then you will have a low level general, which still doesn't bring much. He will need some battles to gain a few levels. THEN you will have a use for him.
    When I began to play I also had the problem with the fast dieing family. That doesn't only cost the most important generals. Other generals will defect, especially high level generals. So finally that ends with no good general, which are good for military and economic.

    Before i learned to keep them alive, I played with tons of yari ashigaru(most effective per outlay) and some agents, normaly without generals.

  13. #43
    Infinite Jest Member easytarget's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    How goes the campaign?

  14. #44

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Been away for a while. Thanks for the replies.

    The campaign rocks. I stopped when I hit 14 provinces (and saved) to prepare for realm divide. I was at peace and trading with all clans, making about 10,000+/- koku each turn and building up on every aspect of empire. I got bored after a few turns of preparation for RD and decided to take a few more provinces. At 17, I hit RD. Having maintained an economy that covered my costs without trading with other clans, I was still making 1500 to 2000, with two good stacks on my front line of two provinces, one in reserve fully formed with a boat, another good stack worth scattered around, and 6 Nambian Trade Ships for strong naval dominance. So far, I have heavily damaged my closer enemies, grown my income to 3,000 and continued my military build up, very slowly, though.

    I also found the Black Ship, and have it in a position that I can attack it with four of mine. The computer shows me with an advantage, but I had to sleep before I finished the battle. It's a formidable opponent.

    I have had to move my reserve stack to the front, delaying my plans to attack the Chocosobe. I have a small goon squad on their island consisting of one missionary and one ninja. They have only had one move when they destroyed two mitsuki sent to arrest them. They will stay there to weaken that island forever, their military back up will have to be built before they get back up, though. Once I can send an army down there, the plan is to create as many vassals as possible (I think four) keeping a small presence on the island to keep them in line. That will give me the trade partners to be rich enough to advance on Kyoto.

    I'm never going to have much of a family in this game, but unless the family goes extinct, winning the war is challenging but achievable. This is the first TW game I have played where the game was a challenge once I secured this many provinces.
    Last edited by NapoleanShogunCaesar; 05-04-2014 at 04:11.

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  15. #45
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Great! Thanks for the update. "goon squad" - love it!
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  16. #46

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Yes, I've been using agents in groups that I refer to as goon squads since the original Shogun. In this one, the missionary is so powerful that I have sent two of them forward individually, though. My ninja is dead on the Chocosobe's island, so that missionary is on his own too now.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Well, Realm divide is not such a big deal for Otomo once you have enough Nambian Trade Ships on the water (6 for me). They would have landed a lot of troops behind my front line if I hadn't had naval supremacy in my home waters. They did stop my forward progress with massive attacks on my defenses and tax my goon squads with their uncoordinated agent attacks, but I have increased in might and should be able to mount an attack after I repel the next big attack coming my way, but once again I have had to divert my attacking army to the front to keep from being overrun. I am building and upgrading more churches to weaken my opponents as the missionaries are by far the most effective agents.

    More later.

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  18. #48

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    The horde still have not made it to my defenses. This is the biggest so far with Takeda, Oda,and Iku Iki forces, the majority of which are Takeda. The Oda sent a huge force earlier, but judging from the attempted sea attacks, each force will be smaller than the first sent from each clan. Therefore, I probably have one more huge one to deal with from Hojo after this, then I should be able to advance easily enough, as well as send a new army to the Chocosobe's island. The Chocosobe killed my last agent on their island, but not before they lost three of their five provinces and regaining one. I have a very high level missionary headed there by next turn to keep them in check.

  19. #49

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Uh oh! Iko Iki attacked where expected, but Takeda turned north to attack my washer defensive point. It's a fight.

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  20. #50
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    <shifts to edge of seat>
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  21. #51

    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    OK, the southern mainland force wiped out the Iko Iki's attackers when they tried to storm the fort. At the same time my goon squad on the mainland sabotaged Takeda's armies, slowing down and separating them. Then I was able to move out of the south castle and wipe out one of their three stacks that contained all infantry. Next we'll see what they do with the other two stacks. My highest level missionary has landed on the Chokosobe's island to wreak more havoc there.

  22. #52
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wow! They really did make it harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by NapoleanShogunCaesar View Post
    My highest level missionary has landed on the Chokosobe's island to wreak more havoc there.
    I noticed you were hoping to set up vassals to trade with after RD. As far as I remember, you'll find it hard to keep them friendly for long, or even a short while. Unless it's been changed, intitiating RD gives you such a per turn malus to relationships that they'll hate you and declare war after only a few turns.

    Or at least that's what I remember. In FoTS, you can at least stay friendly and trade with clans of your faction (unless you go republican).

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