The threat on Archeology in Syria, Ukraine, and Elsewhere.

[RAWROMNOM]

I do not think Ukraine is threatened at this time. Maneuvering aside... Perhaps there is a different picture being painted in Northern Illinois
Can't help, but remember the eve of attack on Iraq. British commanding officer gave a speech about treading lightly. An American officer felt more content saying: "When the president says go, it's hammer time"
My point being about painting different pictures of the same issue...
I am sure our esteemed RAWROMNOM can see through the various shades perhaps more so than I who posted this. I hope I am not misunderstood.

No worries. :3

A majority of family, friends, and acquaintances (civilians and servicemen/women) here in the States have openly expressed worry and/or excitement (yeah, I know.), that the Crimean crisis/a Ukrainian civil war, will draw NATO into conflict with Russia; which would involve us due to treaty requirements. "WW3" has been mentioned more than a few times.

I have no idea what the future holds. And I sure as hell hope everyone settles down. Until the protests (which have lead to the destruction of property), sabre-rattling, and aggressive movements of men and military assets stop; in my opinion, the sites still stand under hopefully empty threats.

[kdrakak]

No worries. :3

A majority of family, friends, and acquaintances (civilians and servicemen/women) here in the States have openly expressed worry and/or excitement (yeah, I know.), that the Crimean crisis/a Ukrainian civil war, will draw NATO into conflict with Russia; which would involve us due to treaty requirements. "WW3" has been mentioned more than a few times.

I have no idea what the future holds. And I sure as hell hope everyone settles down. Until the protests (which have lead to the destruction of property), sabre-rattling, and aggressive movements of men and military assets stop; in my opinion, the sites still stand under hopefully empty threats.

Very glad you did not take offense. I was a bit worried but could hardly hold my... well... typing. This forum is about history right? So, historically Ukraine has been mostly in the Russian/Soviet sphere of influence even though in many ways it was the one of the incubators for the force that was later based in Moscow. I am referring to the Kievan Rus, Novgorod being the other one. Only in times of Russian weakness did external influence reach past Dnieper. Other historical facts are that Russia needs its base in Crimea and access to Mediterranean via the Black Sea. It will fight for it and it has displayed that imperative numerous times in the past versus Ottoman and English overtures. Furthermore Crimea was "given" under Ukranian jurisdiction in the Soviet era (1954) by Nikita Khrushchev, but is otherwise been populated by a majority of ethnic Russians even before that time. Another fact is the US just barely retains its interest in the wider region looking instead to disengage for its pivot to the Pacific. Another fact is that Ukrainian GDP is mostly based in the eastern part of the country, that is much closer to Russia than Europe. Another fun fact is that the Ukrainian west will see the fun part of countries aspiring to join the west i.e. the IMF, and without EU "protection" at that, or the relative wealth of the eastern part. It may not be very long before even western Ukraine sees a different picture and decides to turn to Russia. Another fun fact is that Yanukovych was democratically elected in a process that received very little scrutiny from the West and that was little more than a year ago. Another fun fact is having an American diplomatic phone call leak that was not denied and featured the phrase "F@ck the EU" with respect to the Ukrainian matter, implying that the US will proceed with its plan regardless of EU involvement. Another fun fact is an Estonian (I think) official therefore not automatically pro Russian (probably the opposite), remarking that in all probability, snipers were not on Yanukovych's side, especially since he had little to gain from such escalation. These are facts...

Bottom line: What follows is only my opinion, but here it goes: It is a diplomatic game being played where unfortunately people died. Russia had a few perceived diplomatic victories lately and US diplomacy had to push back. Ukraine was an easy target to show that trouble can be remotely created in the Russian front yard. That fact notwithstanding the Russians are the only ones willing to put on a serious display of force in the arena, because they are the only ones who actually can - a conclusion all too familiar from the 2008 Georgian War; NATO and EU guarantees in Russian periphery meaning very little... a point driven home very clearly for all countries involved.
So sad as the situation is, I think there will be no shower of high explosive or bunker penetrating bombs to damage archaeological sites in Ukraine... thankfully.

[RAWROMNOM]

Very glad you did not take offense. I was a bit worried but could hardly hold my... well... typing.

Please by all means feel free to post your opinions and humour without fear! The team has an excellent sense of humour itself and is very open minded! Just watch the use of uncensored expletives, as a broader forum rule.

[kdrakak]

Turns out I was wrong about Ukraine. There are plenty of artillery shells and bombs flying back and forth. I thought no one was actually going to go to open war for it. I frequently underestimate the readiness with which people will kill each other even within the same country. Even when both sides claim the same nationality... more or less...

[I_damian]

Turns out I was wrong about Ukraine. There are plenty of artillery shells and bombs flying back and forth. I thought no one was actually going to go to open war for it. I frequently underestimate the readiness with which people will kill each other even within the same country. Even when both sides claim the same nationality... more or less...

How can you underestimate people's readiness to start killing each other? It's what humans do. Since before history even began to be recorded we've been sticking sharp things in each other. We love it. No matter how horrific war is and no matter what horrible things take place during war, people still love it and want more. It's just part of our nature. We love killing each other. Even peaceful, pacifist people like myself sometimes fantasize about being a soldier or leading an army. That's why I play EB and other strategy games - I like the idea of war. So do you because you play it/them as well.

Even after having unrestricted and unsupervised access to the internet since age 11, for the last 14 or 15 years, and seeing the horrors of war on websites like Ogrish and Liveleak such as beheadings, executions, women and children blown apart and splattered all over the road, it's still impossible to deny that 10,000 guys launching bullets and bombs at each other is... kinda cool.

So hurry up with my EB2 damnit! I will enslave ALL the barbarians!

[kdrakak]

How can you underestimate people's readiness to start killing each other? It's what humans do. Since before history even began to be recorded we've been sticking sharp things in each other. We love it. No matter how horrific war is and no matter what horrible things take place during war, people still love it and want more. It's just part of our nature. We love killing each other. Even peaceful, pacifist people like myself sometimes fantasize about being a soldier or leading an army. That's why I play EB and other strategy games - I like the idea of war. So do you because you play it/them as well.

Even after having unrestricted and unsupervised access to the internet since age 11, for the last 14 or 15 years, and seeing the horrors of war on websites like Ogrish and Liveleak such as beheadings, executions, women and children blown apart and splattered all over the road, it's still impossible to deny that 10,000 guys launching bullets and bombs at each other is... kinda cool.

So hurry up with my EB2 damnit! I will enslave ALL the barbarians!

I guess maybe I am hoping for more of a build-up before the massive killing begins... or a reason that makes more sense to me... A "Sorry we've tried everything and it didn't work so now I have to start killing you and yours"-type of approach. I don't know...

[Skald]

Its madness and I fear that this could escalate into a wider conflict once the spark is ignited.