Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Defend your Russian friends? You are a nut. Wherever you are getting your news from; get your money back.Originally Posted by Husar
But anything that causes Germany to foot the bill for its own protection, I am in favor of it. Your action in Afghanistan has helped keep your military from atrophying. Also, a NATO ally was attacked by the government of Afghanistan, lest you remember.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 03-15-2014 at 12:38.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Wherever you are getting your news from; get your money back.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Wait a sec. Affiliates of the Taliban in Afghanistan who were trained and supported by the Afghan government hijacked flights and used them as missiles into areas of civilian congregation. They can say whatever they want after the fact, but they were held responsible. The Government supported the terrorism that let to a massive loss of life in the US. What part did I get wrong?
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 03-15-2014 at 13:38.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
I have never heard the argument that they trained them, only that they "harbored" them and refused to hand them out.
It's a fact that the CIA trained them though. And the pilots took flying lessons in the US, studied in Germany.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/160681...n-not-al-qaeda
When Al Qaeda arrived in Afghanistan from Sudan around 1996, says Kuehn, its membership was not more than 30. Al Qaeda fighters, and the growing number of recruits who came to Afghanistan from elsewhere, kept apart from Taliban fighters, who resented Al Qaeda, and there was a great deal of animosity between the two. Osama bin Laden insisted that international actions against the United States and other countries was crucial to his strategy, while Mullah Omar opposed such actions, says Kuehn.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
“You guys foot the bills?” We paid for your bombs falling on Serbia, and we paid for the reconstruction.
“Also, a NATO ally was attacked by the government of Afghanistan”: Nope. A terrorist organisation based in Afghanistan did. That is why you built Guantanamo jail, as the Taliban didn’t get the status of Prisoners of War hence being protected by Geneva Conventions.
If fact, the US, in this occasion, did as Austrian-Hungarian Empire did after Sarajevo attack by Gavrilo Princip.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
So this is how it ends. Cow-towing to German bureaucrats and Russian thugs.
I say we take the English speaking countries and go home, it's clear the continent has thrown their lot in with Fascism & tyranny.
The boot of oppression will soon come down while all of you clamor about the hypocrisy of the USA. The yoke of subjugation will be placed around another generation of Slavs. The bully who was never really stopped will grow bolder
Last edited by Strike For The South; 03-15-2014 at 17:46.
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Do you mean most of Europe apart from France?
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
I don't think that Merkel is going to completely cave just yet. I hope not. This isn't the last of Putin's hubris. He will start a war and it will be a big one. That's what he wants
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
US
UK
CAN
NZ
AUS
The rest of the anglosphere will go through an application process
There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford
My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.
I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Slavs love America. Its just Serbs who hate us and it happens to be Serbs on these boards. German speaking people tend to resent Americans for doing the same thing to the Russians that we did to them. Its good to see that spite governs your actions more than your own territorial integrity. You will definitely have s wonderful life living under the Hegemony of an increasingly autocratic Russian despot who relives battles from history in real time
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 03-15-2014 at 19:24.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
The sad part is that Russia won't hesitate to crush the Serbs if the need arises. Ukrainians are far closer to Russians than Serbs will ever be, but that didn't stop Putin.
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
US, UK, CAN, NZ, AUS: All these European Nations…
“The sad part is that Russia won't hesitate to crush the Serbs if the need arises. Ukrainians are far closer to Russians than Serbs will ever be, but that didn't stop Putin.” So Putin will finish the job you started?
Mind you, Putin didn’t “crush” Crimea did he? USA liberating Iraq did it with far more damages for the civilian population, not speaking of the siege of Fallujah…
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Bah, Americans think they're hot stuff and think they can pick a fight with us. Just ask the other nations that tried to pick a fight with us, ask them how it was. Ask the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire, Habsburg Empire, Third Reich, Soviet Union... Oh, that's right, you can't - they don't exist any more!!! [EVILLAUGH]Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha...[/EVILLAUGH]
Last edited by Sarmatian; 03-15-2014 at 20:57.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Who is us?
"And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman
“The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
I think Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania would be somewhat worried if NATO broke up.
Poland is somewhat too much EU-back garden for Russia to dare attack anytime soon though.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Serbs, naturally.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
The Serbs have been disgraced around the world. I know Serbians who tell everyone that they are Yugoslav because of what the Serbs did to the nations who were trying to rebuild away from their control. Nobody is picking fights with Serbs because you don't kick a dying dog.
No offense, but it would be depressing to still live in Serbia or the Serbian Republic in Bosnia. Living in the past and tilting at windmills isn't going to maker Serbia better.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 03-15-2014 at 20:48.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
None taken. And I agree - it would be depressing if you lived in Serbia.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
I see what you did there.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
That's complete buffergobble. You kept scaring us of the red tide for >50 years and it never came. After the Cold War we found out that they never really wanted to attack after Stalin and even took quite a few actions to prevent a huge (nuclear) war.
The US stationed nuclear missiles all around the USSR in rather close proximity and when they tried the same on Cuba, the US threw a hissy fit and threatened to destroy the world. The USA finance a number of politically active NGOs in Russia and Russia pays none in the USA, but Russia is the aggressive one here. Yeah, right...
Not to forget that not all Russians support Putin and he may actually lose a lot more support if he starts conquering countries left and right because Russians also like to think of themselves as the good guys. If we start handing him excuses left and right, we just make it easier for him. Starting a war is a pretty good excuse. If he does go much further I might agree with you, but so far he has just made some steps towards joining Crimea to Russia, where a majority want to be Russian anyway. But maybe if he conquers all of Europe, we can finally get our own internet and become free from Big Brother and his total surveillance. And a 13% flat income tax also sounds pretty nice...
Last edited by Husar; 03-15-2014 at 21:31.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Well, for one thing that wouldn't include the US - and it's important to generate US outrage early when Russia starts it's invasion. That's why you need US troops on the borders, not lots, but enough that Russia has to attack them in the first instance.
Also, you can't just "export/import" units, you have to embed them. Any meaningful deployment would need to be measured in years, preferably a couple of decades before the unit is rotated out. There are places in Germany (or were) British soldiers don't want to see bombed, specific curry houses, or strip clubs, or brothels. That sort of thing.
It's about building a long-term attachment to another place, not integrating us into one European nation - in fact that would currently run counter to any effort to defend against Russian aggression.
Europe can't match the Russian military muscle, or access to raw materials, and we need to OVEWRMATCH them in any case.
I must be thinking of someone else.
You mean the Russian friends under Putin Facist boot?
I thought the Germans had got that message about Facism, but you seem to have missed the memo. It's a bad thing, Husar.
Afghanistan was revenge and Iraq was for daddy.During the cold war perhaps, now you stress our budgets by begging us to support your adventures to secure your oil empire.
Aside from GWB - who was the last US president to use NATO to draw Germany into a ground war?
Oh - and your military need reforming, your soldiers are starting to get fat and sedentary, although to be fair that took six decades longer than it would have taken any other nation with the exception of the Swiss.
Quite so - the US is far from awesome, but Putin is a Tyrant and he needs to be checked for everybody's sake, especially Russia's
"If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."
[IMG]https://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4917/logoromans23pd.jpg[/IMG]
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
"Europe can't match the Russian military muscle" Europe would have if Europe wouldn't have been following USA doctrine and stupid so-call war on terror. Now, I agree with you. Europe is no match for Russia nor USA for this matter, as Obama is very well aware. How many units were rushed in Poland... 2 AWACS. Whao, I feel much better.
"about Fascism": I think you should look at the definition of Fascism.
Last edited by Brenus; 03-15-2014 at 21:59.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Good luck, could rather start a referendum to join the Russian Federation.
I suppose you mean Fascism, as Brenus said, you might want to look up more than the spelling though.
Oh that's a cute excuse, I bet all the dead civilians are willing to forgive it now.
GWB is enough, it was certainly enough to kickstart these army reforms for future "world improvement campaigns".
Our new defense ministress wants to turn the army into a family friendly job creator so if we ever oppose Russia, we can only fight while the babysitters have time.
The USA declared us a nation that requires strong surveillance, wire-tapped our chancellor and treat us all like criminals. And when we complain, they go "well, come and stop us *trolololol*". If I'm supposed to see them as our friends, maybe that was not the most helpful behavior.
Putin is not a tyrant, he is the elected president of the largest country on earth, show some respect.
"Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
http://i.word.com/idictionary/fascism
That sounds like nowhere but Putin's Russia
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Ugh. If this is the underlying reason for the push to war, then I'm strongly against. We have no business caring about Russia for their sake. If they want the tyranny of Putin, then it's their privilege to have him. I think LibDem evangelists are as bad as other fundamentalists, except maybe they're worse as they have access to bigger and readier arsenals with which to spread their beliefs.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
Such an intellectual. Can't wait to read your enlightening thesis on why overt authoritarianism will be the great liberator from the American panopticon.
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
“Such an intellectual. Can't wait to read your enlightening thesis on why overt authoritarianism will be the great liberator from the American panopticon.” Can I remind you that the last 20 years, the very democratic USA started more wars than the Russian Dictatorship? I am not a big lover of Putin, but things have to be said.
"That sounds like nowhere but Putin's Russia" You were referring to Germany, that was Nazism.
Last edited by Brenus; 03-15-2014 at 22:52.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.
"I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
"You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
"Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"
Re: Should NATO be folded in favor of a European Union unified command?
The west doesn't start wars, it introduces freedom for the oppressed subject people's sake.
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