Thoughtcrime

[rvg]

As he was in charge for a few weeks, you know that's not relevant.

Of course!
I keep forgetting that things that disprove your statements are irrelevant.

[Kadagar_AV]

The whole campaign on prop 8 seemed about teaching kids about gay marriage. While it may not be a big deal to you now it was more controversial 6 or 7 years ago.

It is not unreasonable to assume that many who voted for prop 8 didn’t care about gay marriage but did care about taking it to the classroom.

Calling it bigotry is only showing your own intolerance. Intolerance breeds more of the same. It is polarizing and divisive.

To lash out at someone who backed a political proposition you opposed six years ago is just mean spirited. It doesn’t show he was engaged in any hate mail campaigns or beating up gays on street corners.

A lot of people have changed their minds on the issue since. I don’t recall that being asked of him.

I am sure you have changed your mind on issues in the past. Yet here you seem to support a vendetta because someone once donated money that you disagree with.

I would not say there is anything mild about your intolerance.

If I read it right, this bill just about mirrors Russia's new gay laws. It's OK to be gay, but don't flaunt it around children?

I of course don't agree with that stance on this issue, but I have some respect for it.

Please show that down anyone's throats - but my children's.

As much as I would accept and respect a homo son or daughter, I don't want it to be a career path advertised overly much. Or even easier put: No Need To Swirle Flaming Batons About It.

[rvg]

How is donating to a hate group who's mantra was segregation at best not discrimination? I agree he didn't break any laws, but he still brought this on himself.

Hate group? Which group is that? You throw around terms like 'hate group" without any understanding of what that implies.

[rvg]

A group seeking to blanket marginalize a segment of society because they just don't like them is certainly a hate group. Prop 8ers are the same as white priders. Welcome to the modern world.

According to whom?

[rvg]

The prevailing youth culture. Its the same reason weed will be legal all over the place soon. Every day more of them turn 18, and the youth vote is active in opposing social conservatism if nothing else.

Sources.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm in favor of gay marriage because I feel like gay people are unjustly disrespected in our culture, and publicly passing a law supporting them is a very symbolic statement of equality*. It doesn't really have anything to do with rights or anything substantial. Gay people can get married just fine without a legal document; if you have the ceremony and make your vows etc then you are married. If it was only about the legal benefits of being married, people would have simply pushed for civil unions. Many people come up with more complicated intellectual arguments, but on the whole it's really about status. And when we symbolically raise the status of gay people we downgrade the status of christians, which I accept even though I'm not happy about it. It's a public statement that christianity is out of date about some things and should not be looked to for guidance on moral issues. So it is plainly a direct attack against christianity. There is a long history of anti-christian efforts, as christian people well know, and this goes along with that. So, naturally christian people don't like that. They are usually being pro-christian by being against gay marriage, rather than anti-gay, just like I'm being pro-gay by being for it, rather than anti-christian. So it really is bigotry to hate someone for being against gay marriage and donating to a campaign, even if that campaign is nasty like political campaigns usually are.

Unfortunately it seems to me that the vocal parts of the lgbt movement are becoming louder and more obnoxious with their anti-christian bigotry, suing wedding photographers, and getting people fired like this. Some of it is real, some of it is because of how politically useful it is to have a stick to bash republicans with.

CR made a good point about Mozilla not being a real company. It's a company based on the childish political views of the internet/tech subculture**. Really it's a completely insignificant company and shouldn't be in the news, we're only hearing about it because on the internet the importance of internet/tech stuff is vastly overrated. What I'm trying to say is that it's true that Mozilla isn't a normal company, but that's not really to say something good about it, it's more like if there was some investing firm run by the "ayn rand institute", and they fired someone for donating to some environmentalist cause.

Also, I don't think that companies that fire people because they are concerned about bad p.r. should be respected. I would admire them if they would take a hit in the pocket-book for doing what was right. Money isn't everything.

At the end of the day this isn't really surprising. We already know that people who are passionate about political movements go on witch hunts, and excuse their bigotry by talking about how they don't tolerate intolerance. It seems surprising that it affected a company CEO, but when you see what kind of company Mozilla is it isn't surprising anymore. The real take away is that we (and the media) should take the political views of tech companies and internet websites much less seriously, and ignore wikipedia black outs and google's messages under their search bar and so on.

*which is why it's much better if done by referendum than by court decision.

**for example: "Mozilla’s mission is to make the Web more open so that humanity is stronger, more inclusive and more just. " and "Mozilla believes both in equality and freedom of speech. Equality is necessary for meaningful speech. And you need free speech to fight for equality. Figuring out how to stand for both at the same time can be hard."

[rvg]

Look around?

That's not how it works. Find a credible source that equates pushing for prop 8 with being in a hate group, then we'll talk. Otherwise it's just you running your mouth about things you cannot prove or understand.

[HoreTore]

Of course!
I keep forgetting that things that disprove your statements are irrelevant.

Uhm, what?

You're asking me to show evidence of something he hasn't been employed long enough to actually do. If he had been employed for, say, a year, it would have been a fair request.

[rvg]

Uhm, what?

You're asking me to show evidence of something he hasn't been employed long enough to actually do. If he had been employed for, say, a year, it would have been a fair request.

Here's what you said: "The CEO's job is to provide good working conditions for his gay employees which will enable them to produce good browsers."
If you can't provide the evidence of the CEO behaving in a manner contrary to your statement, then there's no credible reason for firing the CEO.

[Montmorency]

RVG has so little respect for his interlocutors that he refuses to consider what they say on the merits themselves of what is said, unless theycan provide a "credible source" that says the same.

And Sasaki, please define tolerance (in opposition to "bigotry"). Is a soldier bigoted if he fires at an enemy combatant in self-defense? The left doesn't analogize to Mennonites, it analogizes to peaceniks. Suggesting that gays cannot defend themselves without being "bigoted" is such a huge crock.

I also can in no way accept the notion that the gay movement is any sort of attack on Christianity; what you've said about relative status is a total non-sequitur.

[rvg]

Shareholder or Stakeholder outrage isn't enough? How is a CEO of an internet company going to appeal to his prime demographics while also appearing to be complicit in old fogery at best and bigotry at worst?

I'll dig up some sources on youth voting activity tomorrow, or later this week, or maybe never. Not my fault you live in a bubble.

I didn't realize that Mozilla was a homosexual browser. My bad.

[rvg]

Its a browser. The internet is for the young, and they have spoken. If you want to be a homophobic CEO you can still do it in other industries just fine. Quite frankly I have no sympathy for him at all. He supported excluding people from society, and as a result he was excluded. I love it.

Oh really? Well that's a rather ridiculous statement especially considering how even the baby boomers have totally embraced the internet and (gah) social networking.

[Papewaio]

I bit of stretching of definitions here.

It is not a thought that is being punished.

It is a physical action of putting your money where your mouth is.

Actions are the difference between thought and prejudice. He actively paid to deny mainstream rights to minorities.

His actions are punishable by the consumer and corporate groups. One day his actions will be seen as the same as those who opposed mixed restaurants, mixed schools and mixed marriages.

In short his actions do not align with his companies open policies and as such he never should have been selected as CEO.

[rvg]

And they'll all be dead sooner or later. The stock of the older generations that have ruined this country for decades is falling, while among the young you can see the seeds of enlightenment. Even in the South, which I hesitate to even describe as part of my country, the trend is towards the liberal. Gives a cynical Cube hope.

Pssst... I don't wanna ruin your day, but the population in the U.S. as in the rest of the civilized world is aging, i.e. year after year the share of older people is increasing, not the other way around.

[rvg]

Ageing right into an old folks home and a pauper's grave, courtesy of the Greed Is Good 80's and the "Let's get all our steel from China" 70's. And the "lets half ass social reform '60s." Good job Boomers.

Huh? Baby boomers are economically better off than Gen X (my generation).

[rvg]

Right. They screwed you, you screwed the next, and so forth. Who is going to pay for the old? The young who cant get a decent paying job because of policies enacted by previous generations? Hah. You think old folks homes are bad now...

I'm not complaining. Got no reason to complain really.

[rvg]

That's where our generations differ. My generation is poorer than the boomers were in the late 60s, been at war since I was in the 6th grade, pays way more for college, and all around has a lot to complain about. Hopefully the next Occupy Wall St. isn't such a pathetic showing.

I'm not speaking for my generation, wouldn't ever presume to do so. I'm speaking only for myself. If you're poorer than the previous guy, it's up to you to do something about it. Chilling on a lawn in front of the local state assembly is unlikely to make your life better no matter how loud you get.

[rvg]

Forcing the greedy to surrender their ill gotten gains for the greater good is a noble persuit.

Good luck, comrade

[Lemur]

Meh, I'm not happy with how this played out, but it's a mistake to think it's representative of anything but its own peculiar mix of circumstance.

Mozilla is an unusual company—in addition to being a bog-standard not-for-profit, it's also heavily dependent on hi-tech money flowing from a donor base that is extremely gay-friendly.

A CEO is an unusual employee, in that the CEO also functions as the public face of a company. So it's not like having your CPA or your CTO or your dispatcher forced out of a job.

Prop 8 was an unusually bitter fight, with bad feelings still resonating on all sides to this day. Note the haste with which the Mormon Church has hurried to distance itself from the whole Prop 8 debacle. That should tell you something.

This is not a happy outcome for gay rights, for Mozilla, for Eich, or for much of anyone. But I don't think it's the leading edge of a slippery slope.

[Xiahou]

And they'll all be dead sooner or later. The stock of the older generations that have ruined this country for decades is falling, while among the young you can see the seeds of enlightenment. Even in the South, which I hesitate to even describe as part of my country, the trend is towards the liberal. Gives a cynical Cube hope.

And when they're dead.... you'll be old... or dead. And to blame for all of the perceived problems of disaffected youths.
You've clearly got a lot of growing up to do yet, buddy.

[Xiahou]

Or, my generation will do a better job of caring for the future.

That's what the hippies said too. Yet the cycle continues.

[HoreTore]

Here's what you said: "The CEO's job is to provide good working conditions for his gay employees which will enable them to produce good browsers."
If you can't provide the evidence of the CEO behaving in a manner contrary to your statement, then there's no credible reason for firing the CEO.

Of course there is. Companies are allowed to prevent stuff from happening, ya know.

[rvg]

Of course there is. Companies are allowed to prevent stuff from happening, ya know.

The discussion wasn't about the company, but the people who forced the company's hand.

[Major Robert Dump]

I know some guys who make duck calls who may hire him

[Sigurd]

So... Eich is a Mor(m)on?

[HoreTore]

The discussion wasn't about the company, but the people who forced the company's hand.

In that case, he has already offended his costumers by donating to this group, so the reaction is perfectly fine.

[rvg]

In that case, he has already offended his costumers by donating to this group, so the reaction is perfectly fine.

No, not really. No matter what you do, somebody somewhere is pretty much guaranteed to take offense at that. That doesn't mean that you should lose your job over it.

[HoreTore]

No, not really. No matter what you do, somebody somewhere is pretty much guaranteed to take offense at that. That doesn't mean that you should lose your job over it.

Isn't that for the company to decide?

[rvg]

Isn't that for the company to decide?

Sure, and I never put the blame on the company. The blame lies with the sheeple of california.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I guess I am a sheeple simply because I live in California. I don't understand what people have against us half man half sheep creatures. It's not as if we are baaaad at communicating or can't baaaaa think about baaaa baaaa baaaa baaa.