What are your cheapest core units to defeat Rome?

[zenisar]

Let's say you set out on a campaign (difficulty H/H) aiming to obliterate Roman Republic and ultimately conquer the city of Rome. You pick your favourite faction. You tinker with your generals little bit. You give Rome a few decades time to fully develop and get some reforms. Then you start your ultimate campaign of all campaigns. You will face full stack after full stack army built around principes, pedites extraordinarii or legionary cohorts.

What are the cheapest units you feel confident to use as core of your armies in order to consistently defeat Roman armies you will face? Why?

[QuintusSertorius]

Can't go wrong with a lot of the widely-available Greek roster for your infantry (who are both regionals and mercenaries): Classical Hoplites and Thureophoroi. Add in some mercenary/levy phalanxes to hold the centre, and that's a cheap, yet sturdy, battle line. Honourable mention to Keltohellenikoi, who are equivalent to Thureophoroi. For skirmishing Peltastai and Kretan Archers, again cheap, common and effective. For that all important ranged anti-armour role, Iaosatae. Especially good for assassinating Roman FMs before the clash, though make sure you keep them well away from any fighting.

For cavalry, Curepos/Leuce Epos are the best mediums around (and again both cheap and mercenary). Javelins for harassment, excellent stamina, lances to close when you've worn the enemy down. You can have three of them for every two elites you might have bought and they're much more useful. If you can't get them, Thracian Light Cavalry isn't bad either, again it's the AP weapons that make all the difference.

[jackfruitguy69]

all what surena had at the battle of carrhae

[moonburn]

go with germn baseball bats they are cheap and effective

[kdrakak]

Carthage has all you need and you don't even have to think about cavalry too much. And you can throw in a few elites whose upkeep won't break your economy since they won't be coming to Rome from very far. Roman infantry is cheap and well armored. The best and surest way to deal is the typical frontal infantry engagement coupled with a cavalry charge to the flank or rear. Any other scheme takes too much effort and micromanagement. The Carthaginian roster's core mix is the obvious solution.

[QuintusSertorius]

Carthage has all you need and you don't even have to think about cavalry too much. And you can throw in a few elites whose upkeep won't break your economy since they won't be coming to Rome from very far. Roman infantry is cheap and well armored. The best and surest way to deal is the typical frontal infantry engagement coupled with a cavalry charge to the flank or rear. Any other scheme takes too much effort and micromanagement. The Carthaginian roster's core mix is the obvious solution.

Funny you mention Qart-Hadast, some of their core roster are imitations of the same Greek units I mentioned upthread, meaning you can mix and match/replace with mercenaries as you go. Hanatim Libim (Libyan Spearmen) are Thureophoroi/Keltohellenikoi and Dorkim Libi-Ponnim (Liby-Phoenician Infantry) are Classical Hoplitai. As an aside, Hanatim Libim Kdedim (Libyan Heavy Spearmen) are Thorakitai.

Balaeric Slingers are even better than Iaosatae.

[Empire*Of*Media]

all what surena had at the battle of carrhae

YeS ExactlY !!

all those Veteran Armies they could not cross Mesopotamia! because Parthians were tactican & powerful!

and they could not cross Syria! because Sassanids were highly Veteran and Advanced Equal to rome and even better!

[moonburn]

YeS ExactlY !!

all those Veteran Armies they could not cross Mesopotamia! because Parthians were tactican & powerful!

and they could not cross Syria! because Sassanids were highly Veteran and Advanced Equal to rome and even better!

thats why the romans burned the persian capital on 2 ocasions

crassus made a mistake when he trusted his scouts and was missinformed about the kind of catrphact he would be facing since he assumed he would be facing armenian cathraphacts wich weren´t as armoured or disciplined as the parthians

also the parthians inovated with their camel caravan suply train or they would be out of arrows and forced to face the romans in melee before they where in disaray

[zenisar]

After fighting battles with hellenistic phalanx for some time, slow and cumbersome heavy tool for steamrolling anything - if you can catch it - I switched to celtic more flexible style. Though at first, I used those units more like any regular swordsman until I discovered their charge. For those less patient generals among us - charge is the answer! Enemies tremble in fear when they see us. And where the fighting is the thickiest - Gaesatae is the answer!

Anyway, speaking about units available to celtic factions, I was actually impressed by Massilian Hoplites - they can stand to Roman legions in normal circumstances. On the other hand, the other naked unit Uiruduisios was rather dissapointment, they broked and fled even when facing some regular celtic units. But I never actually tried Celtic Axemen - does the armor piercing ability make a difference against against Romans? And Helvetii Phalanx, how do they fare?

[Empire*Of*Media]

thats why the romans burned the persian capital on 2 ocasions

crassus made a mistake when he trusted his scouts and was missinformed about the kind of catrphact he would be facing since he assumed he would be facing armenian cathraphacts wich weren´t as armoured or disciplined as the parthians

also the parthians inovated with their camel caravan suply train or they would be out of arrows and forced to face the romans in melee before they where in disaray

simple comparison:

well 2 times capital was taken yes but we should see the POSITIVE side as 2 times capital was sacked and destroyed but the Romans could not Advance toward Mesopotamia & Iranian Plateau! because Parthia unlike Sassanids & Romans was a Federalical System that no one ruled all the things and Romans faced heavy resistance of local Armies and disciplined ones of course thats why they did never defeated Parthia.

unlike this Romans 2 Times their Capital was Sacked and taken and gradually gradually suddenly the whole Western Roman Empire Fell!

simple......

i dont understand most of you react to Rome and Iranian Plateau Kigdoms & Empires like Rome is your Father's Empire!!
and many of you say Crassus was fool! ok we suppose he was fool but rome fought 300 years against Parthians and 300 years against Sassanids!! so dont tell me that there was not at least 1 good general in the whole great Empire even succeded by Cassar's and others Legacies & Traditions......!!!

if Rome was better than Parthia or Sassanids, simple, they could penetrate and destroy the whole of their Empire, and believe me they would go until china! so we see otherwise.....


and if Parhia would not fell to Totalitarian Sassanids or Sassanids would continue the same Government System, Arabic Muslims could never conquer and abuse Those lands.........
(Sassanids were more powerful and equal to Rome unlike Parthians, but were easily broken as the king would fell and there would be no more local Resistance due to lack of governship and morale)