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Thread: Mine disaster Turkey

  1. #1
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Mine disaster Turkey

    What a horrible tragedy. My condoleances mon sapihis.

  2. #2
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Link?

  3. #3
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27403061

    Over 200 death comfirmed by now, but people are still trapped. What a nightmare.

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    Boy's Guard Senior Member LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Tragedy is boundless.

    There is a 15-year-old deceased among the ones could be found. Yes, 15 years old.

    A friend from Soma, the town where the mine is, says that the death toll easily could top 400-500. The electric transformer underground explodes and the mine goes hell. As of now, the fire was still raging on in the mine. The number of workers in the mine is yet to be revealed. There is so much to be debated yet I don't know if I should feel outraged or sunk in sorrow.

    AKP reign has been a period of internalized deaths of women, children, workers and the young. However they are "elected. Over and over.

    God deliver us from this disaster and the fool.
    Last edited by LeftEyeNine; 05-14-2014 at 10:09.

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  5. #5
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    My sympathies. A terrible tragedy, indeed.

  6. #6
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    The number of workers in the mine is yet to be revealed.
    Almost 800 according to my sources.

  7. #7
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    A 15-year old mine worker would mean jail time for the management in the USA.

    Mine fires are among the most difficult underground threats to minimize, it has been a problem throughout history.

    I will say prayers for those who have died and their families. How horrible.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  8. #8
    Boy's Guard Senior Member LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    PM Erdogan who arrived at the "crime scene", Soma, spoke "These are ordinary incidents. There is a reality called industrial accident. It being so severe deeply wounded our hearts."

    "These are ordinary incidents"

    I agree on being "democraticized" by US Army which does it by screwing up whereever it sets foot. This society so fond of such a stern, insensitive and exploitive can not be screwed up any further anyway.

    I want to watch him burn for a thousand hours.

  9. #9
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    RIP
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

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  10. #10
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    PM Erdogan who arrived at the "crime scene", Soma, spoke "These are ordinary incidents. There is a reality called industrial accident. It being so severe deeply wounded our hearts."

    "These are ordinary incidents"

    I agree on being "democraticized" by US Army which does it by screwing up whereever it sets foot. This society so fond of such a stern, insensitive and exploitive can not be screwed up any further anyway.

    I want to watch him burn for a thousand hours.
    Not that I like Erdogan or anything, what's this got to do with him? It was a private enterprise, was it not?

  11. #11
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Not that I like Erdogan or anything, what's this got to do with him? It was a private enterprise, was it not?
    Workers rights and safety is the responsibility of the state first and foremost, then the company.

    I'm guessing that LEN is arguing for poor government oversight and/or insufficient regulations.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  12. #12
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Workers rights and safety is the responsibility of the state first and foremost, then the company.

    I'm guessing that LEN is arguing for poor government oversight and/or insufficient regulations.
    It is the responsibility of the workers first and if the individuals cannot by themselves get sufficient rights then they either give the job away or band together to get those rights.

    The western governments didn't just spring up with rights for workers. The workers created unions and fought for it and some of the first were similar to these workers in the coal miners who not only fought for their safety then worked hard for schools and other privileges we take for granted.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    It's easy to forget that "workers rights" are somewhat new and novel. People fought for it, were imprisoned/beaten for asking for it, and at times died for it.
    The history of how we got health and safety regulations is not "reasonable/humane individuals coming to reasonable/humane arrangements"; it was almost revolution :p
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  14. #14
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Not that I like Erdogan or anything, what's this got to do with him? It was a private enterprise, was it not?
    Than don't say anything at all, to call this an ordinary incident is more than a little bit thoughtless. That guy isn't quite right in his head if you ask me. What a kick in the face for the mourning families, is that guy absolutily autistic, how can you be so incompassionate unless you are a psychopath. I am in tears when I think of the horrors these people went through, I would expect it must be much harder for someone who is actually from Turkey.

    Total freak. Ordinary incident, how can you say that, what an asshole.
    Last edited by Fragony; 05-15-2014 at 02:27.

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  15. #15
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Incident would be no harm but could have.
    Accident, damage/death of people.

    I would say it is an ordinary accident not an extraordinary one nor a purposeful one.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    A catastrophic mine explosion and collapse constitutes an "ordinary accident" in a functioning country like a civil war constitutes a "ordinary civil dispute"...
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  17. #17
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Incident would be no harm but could have.
    Accident, damage/death of people.

    I would say it is an ordinary accident not an extraordinary one nor a purposeful one.
    I don't speak Turkish, I don't know how I should interpetrate 'ordinary accident', but it sounds to me that the first thing that came his mind is denying any resposibility. He isn't responsible, but it wouldn't be the first thing that comes into my mind brushing that off in advance. I find it extremily thoughtless, devoid of any empathy for what these people are goibg through.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    The western governments didn't just spring up with rights for workers.” No they don’t. In fact, for Western governments, flexibility and obeying the so-called “law of the market” is the priority, as workers protection/safety is an obstacle to business and Unions are pest to be eradicated.

    My thoughts go to the dead and their families.
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

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  19. #19
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    A catastrophic mine explosion and collapse constitutes an "ordinary accident" in a functioning country like a civil war constitutes a "ordinary civil dispute"...
    You might want to read up about mining in general to see how dangerous it is.

    Even in the US, Australia and New Zealand mining fatalities still occur.

    US was a functioning democracy a hundred years ago and in 1907 they lost over 3,000 miners in one year.

    New Zealand had a similar explosion at a much smaller mine in 2010 killed 29 (NZ only has a population of four million)
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Mining is dangerous? So is war. Yet hundreds of deaths in a single incident no longer counts as "ordinary" for the West.

    Risks change. China is the worst for this sort of thing, and they lost only 1000 miners in 2013.

    This accident was ordinary like a mother's death in childbirth is an ordinary death for women.
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  21. #21
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    In China mining disasters are on purpose

  22. #22
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    It seems premature at this stage to politicize this and blame it on particular parties or politicians. We didn't call for the entire Chilean government to be ousted when they had their disaster a few years back.

    IMO cool heads need to prevail over emotional responses at a time like this - let there be a proper investigation, find out who was negligent, and take proper measures based on that.

    Although in fairness Erdogan and his crew do seem to have a self-destructive streak. I hope this guy gets slammed for what he did.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  23. #23
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    It seems premature at this stage to politicize this and blame it on particular parties or politicians. We didn't call for the entire Chilean government to be ousted when they had their disaster a few years back.

    IMO cool heads need to prevail over emotional responses at a time like this - let there be a proper investigation, find out who was negligent, and take proper measures based on that.

    Although in fairness Erdogan and his crew do seem to have a self-destructive streak. I hope this guy gets slammed for what he did.
    If I understand correctly, mine safety has been complained about on politician level for a while now. Erdogan defends himself with "shit happens and has happened in other countries". Outside China, accidents of the same scale did happen for 100+ years ago. That's kind of a poor excuse.

    But yeah, it's not this alone that drives the protests.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  24. #24
    Boy's Guard Senior Member LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Ok so I see there is a certain inability to comprehend why Erdogan's to be blamed. Let me clarify.

    Yes, as Sarmatian pointed out, this is a private enterprise yet the defense comes from the government. Why?

    I count it your countries are long far from such relationships however it's still a common practice in Turkey, particularly under a one-party government reigning for 12 years now.

    Aggressive privitization specifically implemented by AKP since their first term of governing, generally, if not always, ends up with fake auctions, pre-determined as to who will win it and at what price and it wouldn't be hard to guess what kind of relationship the owners of the companies and the government find themselves in. Ideologically or financially, you have to be close. That's it.

    The owner of the mine, Soma Grou, is yet to reveal any declarations however minister of energy is here from the first day. PM visited yesterday, so did president today.

    It's been said dozens of times that when AKP held a meeting back in election days, the entrance IDs of the miners were collected from them so as to force them to join the meeting. They were given their ID cards at the end of the meeting. So, if you wouldn't join the rally, you would practically lose your job.

    PM, that dog named Erdogan, beat a miner yesterday of which there are video clips getting banned by Youtube the moment it's uploaded.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk5XZvtj4aM#t=118

    If you fastforward to 1.50, you'll see in seconds that he has grabbed someone from the back of the head or the neck and shaking him vigorously with rage.

    THAT IS A PM. YES.

    And his deputy chief of staff, Yusuf Yerkel, with his photo taken while kicking a protester. Admitted his assault saying that he would make an explanation later. Still in charge:



    That's your newest police state.

    Thank you all for promoting a rabid dog in name of bullshit called "moderate Islamism".

    I've said it before and I'm saying it again. I want to watch him burn for a thousand hours.

  25. #25
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine View Post
    Ok so I see there is a certain inability to comprehend why Erdogan's to be blamed. Let me clarify.

    Yes, as Sarmatian pointed out, this is a private enterprise yet the defense comes from the government. Why?

    I count it your countries are long far from such relationships however it's still a common practice in Turkey, particularly under a one-party government reigning for 12 years now.

    Aggressive privitization specifically implemented by AKP since their first term of governing, generally, if not always, ends up with fake auctions, pre-determined as to who will win it and at what price and it wouldn't be hard to guess what kind of relationship the owners of the companies and the government find themselves in. Ideologically or financially, you have to be close. That's it.

    The owner of the mine, Soma Grou, is yet to reveal any declarations however minister of energy is here from the first day. PM visited yesterday, so did president today.

    It's been said dozens of times that when AKP held a meeting back in election days, the entrance IDs of the miners were collected from them so as to force them to join the meeting. They were given their ID cards at the end of the meeting. So, if you wouldn't join the rally, you would practically lose your job.

    PM, that dog named Erdogan, beat a miner yesterday of which there are video clips getting banned by Youtube the moment it's uploaded.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk5XZvtj4aM#t=118

    If you fastforward to 1.50, you'll see in seconds that he has grabbed someone from the back of the head or the neck and shaking him vigorously with rage.

    THAT IS A PM. YES.

    And his deputy chief of staff, Yusuf Yerkel, with his photo taken while kicking a protester. Admitted his assault saying that he would make an explanation later. Still in charge:



    That's your newest police state.

    Thank you all for promoting a rabid dog in name of bullshit called "moderate Islamism".

    I've said it before and I'm saying it again. I want to watch him burn for a thousand hours.
    Please don't take this like I'm trying to defend Erdogan, but unless the owner of the mine didn't follow proper security protocols, and was allowed to do so because he was friend of the PM or AKP member, it's not something you can blame the government for. Tragedies, unfortunately, do happen.

    I'm an atheist so I don't pray, but my thoughts are with the miners and their families. That being said, I wish you to get rid of Erdogan as soon as possible.

  26. #26
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Please don't take this like I'm trying to defend Erdogan, but unless the owner of the mine didn't follow proper security protocols, and was allowed to do so because he was friend of the PM or AKP member, it's not something you can blame the government for. Tragedies, unfortunately, do happen.

    I'm an atheist so I don't pray, but my thoughts are with the miners and their families. That being said, I wish you to get rid of Erdogan as soon as possible.
    But that's pretty much what have been said. Privatization by false auction to a friend of Erdogan, complaints that worker safety has dropped after that (from Rhyfelwyr's link). Erdogan goes "shit happens" rather than "such a tradegy shall never happen again and here's the laws to prove it".

    Those dots are very easy to connect.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  27. #27
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    If you can't blame a government for free-market policies anymore, then what the hell can you blame government for?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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  28. #28
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    But that's pretty much what have been said. Privatization by false auction to a friend of Erdogan, complaints that worker safety has dropped after that (from Rhyfelwyr's link). Erdogan goes "shit happens" rather than "such a tradegy shall never happen again and here's the laws to prove it".

    Those dots are very easy to connect.
    Ok, ok. I was arguing the principle, not the case, with which admittedly I'm not very familiar with.


  29. #29
    Boy's Guard Senior Member LeftEyeNine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Another point, it is said that, as a general practice in Turkey actually, the so-called "audits" were performed with the factory officials informed in advance and very lightly so when performed just to get over with the paperwork.

    Edit: A miner just confirmed the known-to-all rumour on a live TV show.
    Last edited by LeftEyeNine; 05-15-2014 at 21:37.

  30. #30
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mine disaster Turkey

    Audits are, as a rule, announced in advance.

    Unannounced audits are less common than announced ones.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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