Segregation Returns to US Schools

[PanzerJaeger]

WASHINGTON (AP) — Segregation is making a comeback in U.S. schools.

Progress toward integrated classrooms has largely been rolled back since the Supreme Court issued its landmark Brown v. Topeka Board of Education decision 60 years ago, according to a report released Thursday by the Civil Rights Project at UCLA. Blacks are now seeing more school segregation than they have in decades, and more than half of Latino students are now attending schools that are majority Latino.

In New York, California and Texas, more than half of Latino students are enrolled in schools that are 90 percent minority or more, the report found. In New York, Illinois, Maryland and Michigan, more than half of black students attend schools where 90 percent or more are minority.

Project co-director Gary Orfield, author of the "Brown at 60" report, said the changes are troubling because they show some minority students receive poorer educations than white students and Asian students, who tend to be in middle-class schools. The report urged, among other things, deeper research into housing segregation, which is a "fundamental cause of separate-and-unequal schooling."

Although segregation is more prevalent in central cities of the largest metropolitan areas, it's also in the suburbs. "Neighborhood schools, when we go back to them, as we have, produce middle-class schools for whites and Asians and segregated high-poverty schools for blacks and Latinos," Orfield said.

And so another pillar of LBJ's great society has fallen, dragging down countless neighborhoods and communities with it. Busing destroyed America's most prosperous cities, and was the overarching driver of the suburban flight that has caused innumerable issues including sprawl, inner city poverty, drug use, and violence, failing infrastructure, political dysfunction, increased reliance on cars and all of the associated costs, resource exhaustion, and the clusterfuck that is modern urban planning (see: Atlanta). And all for nothing...

Forced desegregation was one of the clearest examples of social engineering in US history, and most certainly the biggest failure. Ending legally enforced segregation was the correct decision, but forcing racial intermixing by removing children from their neighborhoods and busing them across entire metro areas was overreach in the extreme.

And now there are calls to 'fix' the current situation, most assuredly through another pillar of LBJ's house of cards: affirmative action. What the political Left refuses to acknowledge is that the passive racism that whites and Asians practice through self segregation is far more linked to culture than color. The cultural attitudes towards the importance of education in the Black and Latino communities simply place a different value on education, which is proven out in school performance. That certainly does not mean that all black and Latino families place less emphasis on education or that all white and Asian families push their children to excel academically and instill the value of education in them, but ignoring cultural norms is folly, as the article above highlights.

The unfortunate truth is that wherever black and Latino children are placed, white and Asian families with the means will leave, either physically or simply opt out of public education. It's easy to decry the horrors of white flight, but it is much more difficult to accept that such flight says just as much about those being left. Until educational attainment is truly valued in these minority communities, further social engineering will yield the same costly results.

[Montmorency]

Busing caused suburban sprawl? That's quite a leap...

[Fragony]

Here it's silent. There are black and white schools, everybody knows that. No greater headache for a byciclemom than her offspring failing to get accepted at the gymnasium, which is whiter than a meeting of the KKK. There is always the mandatory minority of course.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I don't have the insight to comment on Panzer's arguments, but I do wonder what things would have been like if the government hadn't pushed through it's busing/forced mixing policy. Maybe attitudes towards racism would not have changed so drastically as they have since the Jim Crow days? Maybe things would never had moved on to the extent that people would elect a black/mixed-race president?

On the other hand, maybe if black people had retained their integrity as a community, they would have been less susceptible to the gang culture and social breakdown they are experiencing?

[HoreTore]

TL;DR socioeconomic factors impact school achievement.

Thank you for this brand new information.

[PanzerJaeger]

TL;DR socioeconomic factors impact school achievement.

Thank you for this brand new information.

Why the dismissive tone? This is a big story, at least in the US. Busing and forced racial mixing caused significant social strife, and it was one of the largest and most intrusive social policies ever implemented in the states. On a forum where a Donald Sterling thread has three pages of results, I think its failure merits some discussion.

In any event, growing evidence suggests that the economic portion of the trite and poorly supported socioeconomic explanation for the achievement gap is more of an excuse than reality.

An achievement gap separating black from white students has long been documented — a social divide extremely vexing to policy makers and the target of one blast of school reform after another.

But a new report focusing on black males suggests that the picture is even bleaker than generally known.

Only 12 percent of black fourth-grade boys are proficient in reading, compared with 38 percent of white boys, and only 12 percent of black eighth-grade boys are proficient in math, compared with 44 percent of white boys.

Poverty alone does not seem to explain the differences: poor white boys do just as well as African-American boys who do not live in poverty, measured by whether they qualify for subsidized school lunches.

The data was distilled from highly respected national math and reading tests, known as the National Assessment for Educational Progress, which are given to students in fourth and eighth grades, most recently in 2009. The report, “A Call for Change,” is to be released Tuesday by the Council of the Great City Schools, an advocacy group for urban public schools.

Although the outlines of the problem and many specifics have been previously reported, the group hopes that including so much of what it calls “jaw-dropping data” in one place will spark a new sense of national urgency.

“What this clearly shows is that black males who are not eligible for free and reduced-price lunch are doing no better than white males who are poor,” said Michael Casserly, executive director of the council.

The report shows that black boys on average fall behind from their earliest years. Black mothers have a higher infant mortality rate and black children are twice as likely as whites to live in a home where no parent has a job. In high school, African-American boys drop out at nearly twice the rate of white boys, and their SAT critical reasoning scores are on average 104 points lower.

The analysis of results on the national tests found that math scores in 2009 for black boys were not much different than those for black girls in Grades 4 and 8, but black boys lagged behind Hispanics of both sexes, and they fell behind white boys by at least 30 points, a gap sometimes interpreted as three academic grades.

The search for explanations has recently looked at causes besides poverty, and this report may further spur those efforts.

“There’s accumulating evidence that there are racial differences in what kids experience before the first day of kindergarten,” said Ronald Ferguson, director of the Achievement Gap Initiative at Harvard. “They have to do with a lot of sociological and historical forces. In order to address those, we have to be able to have conversations that people are unwilling to have.”

Those include “conversations about early childhood parenting practices,” Dr. Ferguson said. “The activities that parents conduct with their 2-, 3- and 4-year-olds. How much we talk to them, the ways we talk to them, the ways we enforce discipline, the ways we encourage them to think and develop a sense of autonomy.”

[Greyblades]

Oh for 's sake kadagar.

[Kadagar_AV]

Factor Analysis of Population Allele Frequencies as a Simple, Novel Method of Detecting Signals of Recent Polygenic Selection: The Example of Educational Attainment and IQ. : Article : IBC

This rather recent study look purely on the DNA-keys that are shared by prospering students.

It then shows in what race groups these keyes can be found.

The results goes hand in hand with other studies.


I'm sure there are socio/socioeconomical factors at play here, as well. But facts are that even when you remove all socioeconomical factors, some race groups still tend to to well / not so well when it comes to intelligence.

[Husar]

Can I assume you are "black" then? Because your "link" isn't a link.

[Fragony]

Factor Analysis of Population Allele Frequencies as a Simple, Novel Method of Detecting Signals of Recent Polygenic Selection: The Example of Educational Attainment and IQ. : Article : IBC

This rather recent study look purely on the DNA-keys that are shared by prospering students.

It then shows in what race groups these keyes can be found.

The results goes hand in hand with other studies.


I'm sure there are socio/socioeconomical factors at play here, as well. But facts are that even when you remove all socioeconomical factors, some race groups still tend to to well / not so well when it comes to intelligence.

Look at the IQ-world map, I am not dismissing but want to add, in Suriname which is a mostly black colony the IQ levels are better than they are in most European countries. A lot of effort was put into there to build it up and it worked. I also believe that there are differnces between races, but there also valid argumensts for social-economic arguments, arguments that simply can't be simply ignored.

[Hax]

Surprise, surprise: you cannot remove all socioeconomical factors. I understand that why there might be some disposition towards something, the actual differences are so marginal that it doesn't even remotely comes close to having a serious effect on the IQ of a person.

There are so many factors that come into play, that just shoving a map under someone's face and say "well everything is clear now" just doesn't work.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Factor Analysis of Population Allele Frequencies as a Simple, Novel Method of Detecting Signals of Recent Polygenic Selection: The Example of Educational Attainment and IQ. : Article : IBC

This rather recent study look purely on the DNA-keys that are shared by prospering students.

It then shows in what race groups these keyes can be found.

The results goes hand in hand with other studies.


I'm sure there are socio/socioeconomical factors at play here, as well. But facts are that even when you remove all socioeconomical factors, some race groups still tend to to well / not so well when it comes to intelligence.

Surprise, surprise: you cannot remove all socioeconomical factors. I understand that why there might be some disposition towards something, the actual differences are so marginal that it doesn't even remotely comes close to having a serious effect on the IQ of a person.

There are so many factors that come into play, that just shoving a map under someone's face and say "well everything is clear now" just doesn't work.

I think you're both overplaying your hands, personally. You can breed for stupidity in dogs, there's no reason you can't do that with people. Conversely, there's no reason that Africans should be worse at problem solving than Eurasians, looking at historical African cultures, there's plenty of evidence that they can build highly developed, literate, societies.

For one thing, Sub-Saharan Africans created a number of early civilisations, and even within recorded history you have cultures like the Christians Kingdoms in Ethiopia.

However, all modern education of "black" people occurs within a "Westernised" context, which means all Black education is imposed from the outside in some way, even if that is now a historical peculiarity (as in South Africa).

What Kadagar's study tell us is that it isn't American policy, specifically, that is to blame. This suggests that a change in American policy will be unlikely to help.

[Montmorency]

What Kadagar's study tell us is that it isn't American policy, specifically, that is to blame. This suggests that a change in American policy will be unlikely to help.

Er, I suspect this study can only be found on an open-access source for a good reason. For a similar reason, it has only been cited elsewhere by overtly-racist blogs and forums (i.e. the "haha them niggers are stupid" kind).

I recommend this book to Kad.

[Fragony]

Surprise, surprise: you cannot remove all socioeconomical factors. I understand that why there might be some disposition towards something, the actual differences are so marginal that it doesn't even remotely comes close to having a serious effect on the IQ of a person.

There are so many factors that come into play, that just shoving a map under someone's face and say "well everything is clear now" just doesn't work.

No denial there, but there can't also be denied that by western standards Marrocan youth who were born an bred here are basicly retarded, the difference in IQ-levels between native Dutch and North-Africans is huge. The average native Dutch has an IQ of 107, the average north-african has an IQ of 78. That could be atributed to not knowing the language very well, but an IQ test is mostly maths, and the scores are dramaticaly bad. It wouldn't be a lie to say that most are retarded. Forgive me for puting it that way, I am not out for getting as much infaction-points as possible, but you know it's true. That never argues against social-economic factors, as they are from poor regions and it would probably take hundreds of years of development to take into the equation to claim it's racial, but it IS where we are right now. They have had three generations to improve by now, but they are still way behind in just about everything.

Edit, needs adition. Take the Chinese, the Chinese immigrants from the fifties still hardly speak Dutch, for them it isn't really needed, almost all their offspring end up on universities and beat us in Starcraft. They have the same difficulties from the go but easily outperform native Dutchies in just about everything.

[HopAlongBunny]

..., what some consider black problems will be everyone's problems.

Upside, The Adventues of Hucklebrry Finn might finally get a fair reading.

[Fragony]

Its not about smarts its about culture. People who grow up feeling unwanted by society (often helped by their parents' own views and experiences as minorities) can hardly be expected to be as invested in the standards as someone who grows up surrounded by the trappings of generations of stability and dominance. The solutions aren't simple because the problems aren't simple.

Probably, but there are very good reasons that we aren't all that happy with north-africans. By now they just screwed up any goodwill that used to be there. You could rightfully claim that they are discriminated, but they kinda owe that to themselves. No company will hire a north-african if they can also get a Dutchman, because the mentality is totaly different, believe me I have experience there, they are unreliable, trying to keep all my promises was the most stressfull job ever, one is sick, one is suddenly on holiday, one is two hours late, some don't show up at all. And don't get me started of the rediculous overpresentation in crime. They have made themself unwanted by their own behaviour.

Edit, forgot the many times when they suddenly show up in a tent or a man-dress the second they get a contract, with no other purpose than getting fired and run to the army of gutmenschen who have no other purpose than destroying you financially, they live from destroying your company, the fuckers are payed for that by our own government, a lawyer isn't free for those on the receiving end. So nobody takes the risk anymore, they know better than that by now. That is tragic for those of genuinly good will, but it has been ruined and you can't blame us for it.

[Hax]

Yes, Dutchmen loathe Tunisians, Algerians, and Libyans.

believe me I have experience there,

Fragony's argument everywhere in every discussion.

[Fragony]

Yes, Dutchmen loathe Tunisians, Algerians, and Libyans.




Fragony's argument everywhere in every discussion.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike any of them, but if you ask me if I actively dscriminated them the honest answer would be yes. But I am not the architect of the situation, most of the politicians are carreer politicians, it means absolutily nothing to them that we simply cannot get the job done under their conditions, it would take another employee to make sure everything goes smoothly. That was permentally the first two hours of my day, I couldn't do my actual work because of it. But you just can't don't deliver something you said you would, things I could absolutily have delivered if I didnt have discrinated and had Turkish or Polish or Dutch people instead, they always show up in time, are never sick, and take plesseare in working as hard as they can. Thete really is no proposition, the makable society of these social-democrats doesn't work, things just aren't as they think they are, company's can't just raise taxes if the money is gone. Politcs is all these guys know, any so solution they can come up is beyond the extremily narrow marges that is their level playing-field. They just don't get that two hands just aren't enough to carry out their political agenda. Not with the extrememily high taxations, all the rules that only apply to Dutch companies while a Polish guy can get his licence to drive truck with a bottle of wodka. If you think about not recognisin that our economy is killed makes you guilty of the consequenses it could have.

[HoreTore]

ITT: Classical racism from the 20's dressed up in modern day language to make it appear smart.

It fails. Hard.

[Fragony]

ITT: Classical racism from the 20's dressed up in modern day language to make it appear smart.

It fails. Hard.

. I dare you to call me a racist in my face, after I have shown you how upset I am my skinchallenged mates will give you prickly flowers with extra big thorns because you are being mean to me.

[The Lurker Below]

I've met a lot of grown ass white adult men who sounded like children when trying to read out loud. In a few generations, if the rich continue to suffocate the poor, what some consider black problems will be everyone's problems.

I've met a few grown ass black adult men who sounded like white men when talking about why they were moving into a suburb further out. Not sure they were leading the "white flight" but they were leaving a couple years after I was moving in. LOL, guess I was behind the trend. I will echo the many who have qualms about this whole "black culture" reference. It's a socio-economic issue. I will agree that the black and Hispanic community has bought into the socio-economic issue and apparently believe that they can't rise above it and must help perpetuate it. I think it's important to remember that many "white trash" and "rednecks" have the same approach.

*sorry GC, wasn't necessarily responding to you, just wanted to steal your format

[Fragony]

I've met a few grown ass black adult men who sounded like white men when talking about why they were moving into a suburb further out. Not sure they were leading the "white flight" but they were leaving a couple years after I was moving in. LOL, guess I was behind the trend. I will echo the many who have qualms about this whole "black culture" reference. It's a socio-economic issue. I will agree that the black and Hispanic community has bought into the socio-economic issue and apparently believe that they can't rise above it and must help perpetuate it. I think it's important to remember that many "white trash" and "rednecks" have the same approach.

*sorry GC, wasn't necessarily responding to you, just wanted to steal your format

Sure, it's of course a very nice present for those who are already convincd but on a scale from 1 to 10, where would you put the argument, there are simply studies that take race into the equation. I haven't read them, but social-econonics and ethicity will always be a bit of a chicken&egg thing. I know what I expect, but no way I could ever be sure about it, it's impossible. But not t be dismissed in my humble opinion.

[The Lurker Below]

Sure, it's of course a very nice present for those who are already convincd but on a scale from 1 to 10, where would you put the argument, there are simply studies that take race into the equation. I haven't read them, but social-econonics and ethicity will always be a bit of a chicken&egg thing. I know what I expect, but no way I could ever be sure about it, it's impossible. But not t be dismissed in my humble opinion.

Maybe one of the reasons these studies are so bitterly debated and refuted is that they are all about math. ie "scale from 1 to 10". How valid can a measurement of human emotion, which frequently is not rational or logical, and defies math, really be? Having said that I'm sure somebody will respond with links to some psychological studies that claim to measure human motivation. Sorry Fragony, I guess to answer your question my opinion is that race is a 1 on that scale. Are there generations of training incorporated into our DNA that will take more generations to unlearn? But ultimately, race is not the underlying cause of the problems.

[Strike For The South]

And what is white? what is black? What is hispanic?

Will someone who believes in races explain to me how we classify them?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And what is white? what is black? What is hispanic?

Will someone who believes in races explain to me how we classify them?

The only definitions that would remain valid are cultural definitions. "Race" per se is pretty well unsupportable. Once you open it up to a cultural definition, you have to accept that all of us embody a multiplicity of cultural identities, only one of which might be labeled -- for convenience -- based on melanin content.

[HoreTore]

And what is white? what is black? What is hispanic?

Will someone who believes in races explain to me how we classify them?

For something that is claimed to be so obvious, it sure is hard to get a straight answer of just what it is.

[PanzerJaeger]

And what is white? what is black? What is hispanic?

Will someone who believes in races explain to me how we classify them?

Why don't we use the Census Bureau's model and allow people to self select, which is kind of the point. Race does exist in the US in 2014, at least in a social context; and it is clear that it has an effect on educational outcomes above and beyond economic factors. Unfortunately, intellectually lazy appeals to geneticism, while scientifically valid, ignore the impact that racially-derived cultural attitudes have on real people. Being born to self identified black parents automatically places one at a significant comparable disadvantage versus other racial groups, regardless of economic station. That's reality, and frankly, reciting the same line on race you read on Salon five years ago sidesteps the issue. (And this isn't targeted specifically at Strike. It just seems that any time race and the real impact it has on society is introduced into discussion, the usual suspects leap at the opportunity to repeat the same vapid 'race doesn't exist' line. It sounds intelligent but addresses nothing.)

[Husar]

Like this?

http://www.policymic.com/articles/87...out-our-future

[Fragony]

Maybe one of the reasons these studies are so bitterly debated and refuted is that they are all about math. ie "scale from 1 to 10". How valid can a measurement of human emotion, which frequently is not rational or logical, and defies math, really be? Having said that I'm sure somebody will respond with links to some psychological studies that claim to measure human motivation. Sorry Fragony, I guess to answer your question my opinion is that race is a 1 on that scale. Are there generations of training incorporated into our DNA that will take more generations to unlearn? But ultimately, race is not the underlying cause of the problems.

You see, I am absolutily not sure of it. And even if it's rather obvious that some groups perform significantly worse I wouldn't want to be the one making the suggestion and having to explain it as the social-economic factors can't be denied. There is no difference when there is a level playing field, I won't deny that either. It's a rather hard and uncomfortable take on things, but I don't bite my to tongue when considering it, I think it's perfectly possible. To be honest, I really do think that there are differences between ethnicities, that doesn't come with any judgement. It might be prejudice and racist, but I can assure you that there is 0% harm in it. Those don't get that last part aren't invited when I give a party. This should be a discussion where I am totally willing to take my loss, but please don't make something out of me that I am not just for considerating it, that is not directed at you by the way. Discusion needs care, not instant insinuation, we are all less off because of doing that.

[Papewaio]

I wonder how high socially an African American could go with the same parenting as an European American.

Guess we will never know unless Obama puts some Federal grant money into the research...