Segregation Returns to US Schools

[Kadagar_AV]

Why don't we use the Census Bureau's model and allow people to self select, which is kind of the point. Race does exist in the US in 2014, at least in a social context; and it is clear that it has an effect on educational outcomes above and beyond economic factors. Unfortunately, intellectually lazy appeals to geneticism, while scientifically valid, ignore the impact that racially-derived cultural attitudes have on real people. Being born to self identified black parents automatically places one at a significant comparable disadvantage versus other racial groups, regardless of economic station. That's reality, and frankly, reciting the same line on race you read on Salon five years ago sidesteps the issue. (And this isn't targeted specifically at Strike. It just seems that any time race and the real impact it has on society is introduced into discussion, the usual suspects leap at the opportunity to repeat the same vapid 'race doesn't exist' line. It sounds intelligent but addresses nothing.)

I must honestly say that it is more than a common fact that some ethnic groups do better than other ethnic groups in different areas of physical and psychological abilities.

Again: It's a FACT.

Heck, look at it logically... Intelligence is very obviously different in different ethnical groups, no? I mean seriously, if one hold against this argument they are extremely hard pressed to then explain how it comes that a species (homo sapiens sapiens) will evolve in a totally uniform manner no matter what surroundings they have.

That kind of goes against everything and all that we have learnt about evolution. Am I wrong?

The people claiming that we, as ethical groups, are all equal - have a HUGE intellectual mountain to climb. I dare anyone to say that ethnicity doesn't matter when it comes to general trends about intelligence.

Again, it's been proven over and over again. East Asians are a little bit smarter than Europeans. Heck, I am European and openly admit that YES, yes indeed, they are smarter in general than my countrymen. Where is the shame in this?

Same with black people, they tend to run faster and be more enduring than us white people. Why should this be a reason of shame for me? I know myself well enough to know I can run faster than the absolute majority of black people, and if you put us on a ski slope I am sure i would win even against the worlds best black skier / snowboarder.

So, what exactly is the problem?

Should black people not be proud of being faster?
Should East Asian people, or jews, not be proud that they rock the IQ charts?

I just don't get it, why cant we just accept that we are different?

Same thinking should at least be understood by everyone in an enlightened society. No?

Again: If you don't "believe" that people are different - as well as different ethnical groups are being different, you will be hard pressed to prove it. The argument FOR ethnical groups being different is easily proved...

You know, different skin colour, brain size, medical conditions and so on and so on...



http://www.ibc7.org/article/journal_v.php?sid=312 <- <- <- this is the link that was broken before... It shows that East Asians are a little bit smarter than Europeans, and that black people are completely off the scale.

The study basically checked which genes are in common for prospering students, and then checked where these genes could be found. IIRC the average number of good academical genes was around:

36 for east asians
32 for europeans
16 fore africans

Draw your own conclusions from it, I hope the link works this go around :)

Oh, and to repeat the main point of this thread.

To say that ethnical groups have the same cognitive abilities as any other groups goes against everything we know about evolution.

[Tuuvi]

To say that ethnical groups have the same cognitive abilities as any other groups goes against everything we know about evolution.

We know why there are differences in skin color and other physical traits between populations, they are adaptations to different climates. But what would have pressured different groups to evolve differences in cognitive abilibities?

If Africans make such great athletes than how is it that they aren't evolved to be as good at skiing as white people?

[Fragony]

I don't think Kadagar understands evolution as he thinks he does. The very few proven differences that exist are negligible compared to life-style, education, and socio-economic status.

You can't be sure of that, that it might in fact be racial that some ethnicities don't perform as good as other should't be dismissed by default. It's perfectly possible. Why couldn't it be? Gimme that. I know it's an insulting thought to make but I am ok with that, also ok with possibly offending.

[Beskar]

You can't be sure of that, that it might in fact be racial that some ethnicities don't perform as good as other should't be dismissed by default. It's perfectly possible. Why couldn't it be? Gimme that. I know it's an insulting thought to make but I am ok with that, also ok with possibly offending.

The differences between people are statistically insignificant in the population when it comes to race, as it has been stated before, there is more intra-genetic differences than there are between said 'races'. In short, there is more variation in you and me, Fragony, then there is between one of us and a 'black' person. Certain people genetically are prone to various pros and cons in various situations but that is down to an individual basis, such as height and other measures but this isn't down as some mythical block-group of race. There are factors such as Sickle-cell which allowed some populations greater resistance against malaria at the cost of them blocking the blood vessels but this isn't some inherent trait on a race basis.

So are there genetic differences? Yes.
Do these differences reflect 'race' constructs ? No

[The Lurker Below]

Should black people not be proud of being faster?

To say that ethnical groups have the same cognitive abilities as any other groups goes against everything we know about evolution.

/ignoring the false premise

They should not, we'll take that away from them too!



It would also be disingenuous to declare your premise false and not acknowledge that a large portion of people share it. Case in point, the responses to the above video.

[HoreTore]

Kadagar has posted one bogus "study", which is nothing more than ramblings from a non-scientist(who also dabbles in parapsychology, that's a sign of quality!), with no more access to cool scientist stuff than we do.

He has been given a proper source, a paper written by real scientists with credentials(you know, those you can't order by mail).

He has chosen to ignore the latter source, and continue to drone on with the assumption that the former source means something. As it's just nonsense, his posts are as unintentionally hilarious as they always are.