EU election...

[InsaneApache]

So what?

It didn't work before the election and it's laughable really that you even brought it up. Screaming 'waycist' is counter-productive. Try answering his arguments.

[Fragony]

So what?

It didn't work before the election and it's laughable really that you even brought it up. Screaming 'waycist' is counter-productive. Try answering his arguments.

Yep. I put on my wizard-hat and rope and cast populismus, a powerful spell that removes any argument.

Farrage is a boss, he has one big problem though: he is absolutily right.

Much to the grief od europhiles he has outlined everything years ago, they know he was right, reality resonates with him being spot on. He understands what the EU really is.

[Beskar]

Try answering his arguments.

I did in the Kipper thread.

He was embarrassing in that video though, clearly didn't have a clue. Always tickles me when he complains about immigrants and schools where children have English as a second language when his own wife is an immigrant and his own children speak German as a first-language.

He is someone who attempts to be 'down' with the people but he isn't working-class and is a parody of someone attempting to be, he is from the 'big-city' and he does have his 'big-city friends and media-buddies' like other political parties.

As for 'crying racist' I never said that once, but if you noticed, people stopped very quickly as HIGNFY jokingly put it "They are racists? This is a party I can get in touch with" and they get a surge in the opinion polls. It is actually more to do with rooting for the underdog, but alas.

[InsaneApache]

The only reason he goes on about immigrants is because he knows full well that we do not have control of our borders. As for being 'waycist', I'd say the opposite is true. Whilst we allow in Caucasians from the EU, we deny access to citizens from the New Commonwealth and beyond.

My step-mom had a hell of time getting into the UK with my dad. Nearly 11 hours at the border before they let her cross. Oh,and she's black.

BTW how is it possible to be 'waycist' towards fellows of the same ethnic group? I'd be fascinated to know.

[Beskar]

BTW how is it possible to be 'waycist' towards fellows of the same ethnic group? I'd be fascinated to know.

I could easily answer that by saying peoples definition of race is different based on where the concept of race they come from is manufactured. You have the American-esque 'White' and 'Blacks', where it is done purely on skin-colour. You have the European-School which Hitler was a fan-of which called Poles, Russians, etc, Sub-human Slavs. He also had the 'Aryan German Master-Race' which is different but related to the strong 'British Race'.

But reality is, 'Racist' is common-speak for 'Xenophobic'

Also, the definition of ethnic is: "relating to a population subgroup (within a larger or dominant national or cultural group) with a common national or cultural tradition."
Romanians are not in the same ethnic grouping according to this definition.
Could be argued Welsh/Scottish/irish are different ethnic groupings too.

[Fragony]

What's xenophobic about being realistic? Racists are perfectly catered by the BNP, who are admittingly mostly scum. But the UKIP has nothing to do with them, nor do they want to have anything to do with them. It's just not fair to link libertarians like the UKIP to those who have some questionable thoughts. You aren't going to convince anyone, there is nothing to win there, so it's just as futile as it is unfair.

[InsaneApache]

The people of Britain have spoken and our political life will now have to be conducted on quite different terms, right? Wrong. Here’s another statement that seems to have passed for a truism over the past week which is equally wrong: large swathes of the populations of Europe have shouted a warning to their governments, and thus shaken the confidence of the whole European Union edifice. And another: national leaders in most of the major EU member states realise that they must respond to the demands of their electorates and reconsider the basic principle of ever-closer union.

When I say that all of these statements are false, I do not mean to detract from the thunderous importance of recent electoral events. I am not one of those delusional commentators who believe (or claim to believe) that nothing much of any significance has happened and that all this excitement is just overblown media froth. On the contrary, my reason for insisting that none of the things that are assumed to be self-evidently true about the post-elections world will actually prove correct, is that the results were too important – so devastating, so cataclysmically mind-altering that they cannot be assimilated. There is no way that the European Union – which is to say, those who run it, think entirely within its conceptual parameters, have their political and personal futures invested in it and can conceive of no reality outside of it – can come to terms with the consequences of these elections.

The facts do not compute. They are incomprehensible. Therefore they must be dismissed as some irrational, contemptible spasm to which the masses are occasionally susceptible and which the enlightened institutions of the EU were specifically designed to over-rule.

Here in Britain, in our own little bastion of denial, party leaders are jamming up behind one another to assure voters that they “get it”: they hear you, they understand your concerns, they are going to address your anxieties, blah-blah. So what does all this lesson-learning and self-abnegation amount to? David Cameron announces firmly that he knows the EU is seen as “too big, too bossy and too interfering”, which makes the whole thing sound like a children’s playground squabble. Is it just me or does the word “bossy” sound just a little bit patronising and trivial – especially given that what we are talking about here is the withdrawal of our right as a democratic polity to have power over own criminal justice system and our national borders?

Ed Miliband insists that he now recognises that people’s concerns about immigration must be taken seriously. I’ll bet he does – especially as so many of the voters with the greatest concerns are likely to have been ex-Labour supporters. But what exactly does this commitment to taking people’s concerns seriously amount to? A change of Labour policy on immigration? An explicit admission that the decision by the last Labour government to permit immediate unlimited migration from the new East European accession countries – when most other member states did not – was a mistake? Not that I’ve heard. Until it translates into some meaningful new policy, this is just pious codswallop. Saying “we hear you” in a soothing voice means nothing. It just buys a bit of time – which is the real object of the game.
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The Conservatives can play at this with the most confidence. So far as they are concerned, they emerged from the bloodbath with barely a scratch. All they need do is murmur a few attentive platitudes, re-affirm their promise of a renegotiation with a supposedly humbled EU, wait for the public hysteria to fade in the face of good economic news, and then face an utterly demoralised Labour party led by (ha, ha, ha) Mr Miliband.

What’s to worry? If they beat Ukip in the Newark by-election – even if their 16,000 majority is drastically cut – they will privately (and possibly even publicly if they are particularly foolish) declare the present emergency officially over. Their most urgent worry, bizarrely, is that the Lib Dems are now dead in the water, which leaves a lot of disenfranchised voters who could become a dangerously unknown quantity at the general election. (We could yet be faced with the nightmare possibility of a tiny rump of Lib Dem MPs still holding the balance in a hung parliament, if the Conservatives cannot manage a working majority.)

Yes indeed, the Tories know how to manage this “crisis”. Sit it out. Hunker down and let it blow over. I promise you that, within weeks, they will be doing and saying exactly what they had been doing and saying before The Earthquake. As will Labour, for a slightly different reason: because it simply does not have the philosophical resources to cope with this shift in reality.

So everybody in mainstream British politics – even Nick Clegg, the dead man walking – will lie low, stay calm, and hope that when summer comes, this will all be forgotten. Because the awful truth is that nobody in politics actually knows how to respond to a spontaneous demonstration of public anger any more. They have become so practised at manipulating, image-projecting and rebranding, that a full-frontal confrontation with raw democratic outrage leaves them stupefied.

But what about the EU itself? Hasn’t it been shaken in its sublime self-regard? Won’t the mass revolts of electorates across its member states force it to reassess its own size, role, power, fundamental precepts, etc, etc, thus making Mr Cameron’s mission to reform it more practicable?

Wrong again. EU institutions are transcendentally oblivious to the democratic will: they were, after all, created precisely to ensure that the serious business of government could never again be taken over by volatile popular movements of dubious provenance. One of the EU Commission’s first acts after the elections was to demand a further £1.76 billion in contributions from member states, in order to subsidise those whose problems are almost entirely attributable to EU economic policy.

The European parliament, supposedly the elected voice of the governed, is so committed to the momentum of the federalist project that even in the wake of those spectacularly anti-EU election results it nominated Jean-Claude Juncker, an arch-federalist, as president of the Commission. Has anybody learnt anything? Presumably if there was to be an honest statement of basic principle engraved over the doors of the Brussels headquarters it would say: “The people are dangerous. Don’t listen to them.”

It has become received wisdom that the reason for that massive electoral rebellion against the EU was that the people were throwing a harmless tantrum: they were just letting off steam because they knew that their votes in this election did not matter. And what do people do next when they realise that their votes don’t matter?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...odswallop.html

It's the last sentence that worries me. If the EU keep ignoring this they are storing up an awful lot of trouble.

[Rhyfelwyr]

You know, in the past, I used to be a bit sympathetic to Europe. I felt (and still do feel) that some in this country would, if they could have their way, bring back workhouses, reinstate the death penalty and lock up everybody for everything like they do in America. I saw liberal-lefty Europe as a counter-balance to that.

But now some of the stuff coming out of Europe is really totalitarian. That European Arrest Warrant really freaks me out, another one of those so-called 'anti-terrorism' measures. We've already got the horror stories coming through. If Britain is a sovereign nation then I don't expect to be carted off at the demands of some foreign court, especially with some of the freak shows that pass for legal systems in Europe (remember the Amanda Knox trial, for example?).

[Furunculus]

Interesting times.

ECR down from ~55 to 46
ALDE down from ~75 to 55#

However, it looks likely that ALDE will lose two or three seats to the EPP, whereas the ECR is likely to gain as many as ten or twelve seats over the course of the next few months.

Which would make the ECR the third biggest party in the parliament!

A long way away from the prophecies or doom and fractured collapse all those years ago. ;)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...?118607-Europe

[Furunculus]

i'm delighted to announce that the right-wing eurosceptic group the ECR is now the third biggest group in the EU parliament, toppling the previous kingmaker ALDE back into fourth:

http://www.euractiv.com/sections/eu-...est-parliament

[pops champagne]

not bad for a rag tag group of reprobates that were destined to explode mere months after their formation. ;)