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Thread: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

  1. #1
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    As people might be aware, I play Epeiros as a migrated faction all the time. Pergamon, The Bosporan Kingdom, Massalia, Kyrenaia and even Thraikia. It's loads of fun to play a Hellenistic faction somewhere other than intended, the first one especially is very viable with lots of obvious things to do even from the outset.

    However, I have never played a single game as Epeiros. Their precarious starting position (at war with everyone!), a province stranded on the edge of Italy with little prospect of reinforcement, and an uninspiring starting roster didn't work for me. I don't care about elephants (waste of money as far as I'm concerned) or elite phalanxes (levy is just fine for holding the centre) and the Illyrian units (barring the cavalry) didn't impress. I can recruit the excellent Greek units virtually anywhere, in which case why pitch myself into the mad conflict for Greece proper?

    Have I missed a trick by never even trying this out?
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  2. #2

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    I had a great game blitzing Italy and using my starting elephants until they were gone rather than disbanding them... I used them as super mobile siege weapons after some epic battles against Rome. I then used cost-effective armies of mostly levy phalanxes and Italian regionals (I recruited Hastati as skirmishers since their pilas are armor piercing, and then I'd use Samnites or axemen at their flanks) to conquer Carthage, Greece, and Asia Minor... but yeah come to think of it this was a migration campaign of sorts. Thorakitai are a personal favorite too and I know the Maks can't get them. I've always preferred mobile close combat infantry and lots of javelins over the phalanx and I wanted Italian and Celtic mercs to carry the day while the citizens just pin down the enemy. When you conquer all of Italy you stop feeling the debt as much too.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    you crazy man ? epeiros is one of my favourite factions to play i have all the initial steps memorised by now and all the initial tactics defined

    in the 1st turn i take out pella and then thessally using the elephants as baterring rams get a foothold on the city let them tire themselfs against my combined levy and elite phallanx (medium but for a starting game itīs elite) then open a second hole on the wall and charge the enemy back with a combined fm illirian and elephant charge the illirian cavalary can catch most of the routers when they run back to the townsquare and then just mop whatevers left with elephant charges and massive cavalry tactics then run to thessally on the same turn and rinse and repeat

    use the levy spearmen as garrison build a fort beteween thesally and athens (hell gates i believe) and head strait to dalmatia

    meanwhile set a peace treaty with seulekids for a bundle of silver same for the koinon and maks

    use a few units to head strait for taras and start building as soon as possible stone walls once itīs done you can fend off the romans until you can send a few more units there but reinforce it with your lamest family member and sally out alot take out their generals with a combined fm and taratine cavalry force use hoplois to hold the lines and charge the roman infantry

    now this is a hard one but if you can get the stone walls you should be ok

    dalmatia and pella are literally gold mines so segestica tylis nassus bization and all the other silver mines are just bonus

    transfer population to your capital to have a steady recruitment center of strong troops (use the typical recruit akontistai and then disband options to reinforce the city recruitment pool)

    navy is tricky its a flip of a coin but you should go for the maks navy and the koinon one before you set up peace but its a question of dumbluck since youīre on the clock to have all massive mines by 260bc in the balkans

    then keep the warflame up beteween the koinon and the maks and remember to build the danube wall where you set psf in all of the danube crosses to have some time to build up against the ghetai

    also 2 forts in the bosphorus should keep the seulekids and the pontians away for a while avoid being draged into mikra asia before youīre ready the mines might seem nice but it will cost you one of your 3 armies once your balkanic base is set

    i kept my elephants long enough to conquer most of the balkans including the scordasci orca homeland (they are well worth the investment ) the boii infantry not so much ...

    actually if the maks had thorokitai they would be perfect but since they donīt they are tied with the epirotes on my favourite campaigns choice since i donīt care that much for elephants either but i recognise their usefullness and know how to use them

    if you time it properly the cash you get from destroying the roman barracks in taras and the mak ones in thessally and pella should keep you above the waterline until you can extort the seulekids koinon and makedonians and ofc proper tactics means you can save up your warriors so you can avoid recruitment in the initial turns

    also ttack away with elephants the trufh is you only need 1 as a batering ram so after turn 1 they loose their usefullness since they cost alot of cash

    as for the navy use 1 unit to replenish your navy and then keep it safe in your capital having 3 ships of 2-10 soldiers is better then having 3 and navies also cost fortunes thus the reason why i said engage the maks as soon as possible to reduce the amount of soldiers ithout sacrificing ships once you need it again (i normally build large fleets of trireme and naval blockade the crap of the italians and the 3 early ships are essencial in breaking the romans economical back ) just retrain your navy and go smack some roman invading fleet and take out a few roman fmīs in the process

    i use similar tactics with the maks except i erase the koinon in 1 turn i take athens and sparta when i finish my turn

    put 1 unit sieging athens and your princes army sieging it or king i canīt recall now the athenians will attack that single unit but then your entire field army enters the batle with their lathers and rams and youīre on top of the hill so a carnage ensues and if you play it smart you can even take the city faster by using your fm cavalry to cross the gates with the routing greeks

    as for the spartans it will take skills but with 2 fms itīs doable with a good cavalry use

    once the greeks where kicked out and left only with rhodes (lets hope they survive theyīll prove usefulll s thorn in the seuleids side and ofc buy you time before going for mikra asia in a 2 pronged attack from myletos and bizantium

    if only maks had thorokitai

  4. #4
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    Ironically, you've both identified what I think is the prime source of my unease: they're a faction set up for fast play. You have to go on the offensive right out the gate and try to blitz your way to stability. I like to play slow, ideally with little expansion at first as I build up my economy and take my time. I always start a game by disbanding everything beyond my bare minimum needed to garrison what I have. I like to use one or two armies, each led by an FM for major battles then a settled peace.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  5. #5
    Arrogant Ashigaru Moderator Ludens's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    Quote Originally Posted by moonburn View Post
    then keep the warflame up beteween the koinon and the maks and remember to build the danube wall where you set psf in all of the danube crosses to have some time to build up against the ghetai
    Forts (and I take it you mean ordinary forts, not PSF, which do not appear in R:TW) do help to contain the A.I., but I think this has more to do with poor A.I. pathfinding than with actual deterrence. Blocking every pass with forts seems like an exploit.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    I like to play slow, ideally with little expansion at first as I build up my economy and take my time. I always start a game by disbanding everything beyond my bare minimum needed to garrison what I have. I like to use one or two armies, each led by an FM for major battles then a settled peace.
    Then Epeiros simply isn't for you: the campaign forces you to fight on two fronts at least, right from the start. Even if you pacify Rome by giving them Taras, you will have to compete with both Macedon and the Getai for the Danubian mines. Without those mines, your economy is too weak to accomplish much (and surrendering Taras only increases that problem).

    Knocking Macedon out quickly helps, but you are still likely to find yourself surrounded by untrustworthy and/or hostile factions.
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  6. #6

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    herm i enjoy a slowpaced game thats why fter those initial crazy turns after i set forts everywhere (they are also very usefull to move around troops fast since the distance can be covered by 10 units instead of just 1 if you got forts in all the right places while they slowdown your enemies advance for a pitifull 3.000 mnai for the entire fort garrison )

    forts are also usefull besides those 2 uses as places to keep your army or armies i normally keep them in the secondary forts who can reach the front line forts in 1 turn while i keep my family general in the nearest city with good use you can keep your borders stable for decades

    and yes forts not psf

    segestica the scordascii orca and the other place with no mines i use client kings prticulary the other 2 places are great recruitment centers for the gallic troops who make up my flanks and sword bearing stone wall defenders

    also make peace with the getai before you have a border with them (i might be confusing this with the maks campaign tough) but not too soon that they might take away your schytian and keltic recruitment centers (altough i doubt they can take the scordascii orca homeland so go for the city in the black sea 1st right after naissos since i saw the getai fail 20 times their attempted conquest before winning the scordascii orca hometown)

    itīs basically an early sprint and then you get 20 to 30 years of peace to build up except for italy ofc but donīt blitz italy set up mercenary armies in northern italy to contain the roman expansion itīs easy to do once you get your mines up and running

    and ofc if you wait long enough you get to sitback and watch the koinon and the maks go at each others throat time and time again in hellas proper and in mikra asia and in mikra asia itīs even more fun cause you get to see how they interact with the seulekids and the pontians

    use the console to transport the spartan army back to the mainland preferably to attica that tends to keep the forces balanced out

    ofc this is the reason why i prefer the makedonian campaign you kick the epirotes to italy and the kh to mikra asia and the cash boost from the aegean trade is wonderfull you get to have enough cash for 5 strong field armies and an extremly powerfull navy with your northern border well defended by your client kings you just sit and wait it out

  7. #7

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    I don't think it is too much of a stretch to suggest that Pyrrhos would be a bit impulsive, and possibly try to take on more than he could handle. So a first turn siege of Pella is certainly not out of the question.

    A slow playing option that could be reasonably viable is to withdraw all the forces from Italy to Greece, and let Taras rebel / be taken by the Romans. Take Pella with the superior forces at your disposal, and then disband the elephants. They'd be eating in your income too much (certainly if you do not opt to siege Demetrias on turn 1 as well, with your elephants as mobile battering rams. This can be done, but would certainly not be something you'd be thrilled about). Since then you'd only share a border with the Makedones, who have their fair share of conflicts as well, it should be possible to defend from that, especially if you can get them to throw themselves at Athenai. They should not be allowed to capture Athenai, because then your provinces are starting to look very, very attractive, even if KH manage to get Korinthos in return.

    Obvious first targets are up the Illyrian coast, to develop the mines there, and rake in the dough. As you expand your financial base, you can slowly start meddling into the affairs of Southern Greece. Usually the Getai do not really start causing havoc soon. They'll need time to conquer their surroundings, and they may even go for something that is relatively remote, such as Ak-Ink, or Kallatis. That would certainly not directly interfere with your agenda.

    Such an approach (relying on Ambrakia, Epidamnos and Pella) requires some serious diplomacy and defensive skills. Without Pella, the two Greek Epirote provinces are hardly viable to survive the diplomatic nightmare at the game start. Getting peace with the Romans in particular could significantly boost trade income. That would leave you only the KH and Makedonia to deal with. The tricky bit is to ensure that neither KH or Makedonia become dominant in Greece, until you are ready to strike.

    Just my two cents.

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  8. #8
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    Well, there's slow and then there's slow. In my current Pergamon game, I didn't expand out of Mysia for the first 200 turns (50 years). It's a really rich province, so you can get away with that. I focused my external efforts on seeding the nearby settlements with spies and keeping my assassins busy, along with swatting the occasional invasion.
    @Ludens - you might be right. I guess the only way I'll know for sure is to try it some time.
    @d'Arthez, that's an intriguing roadmap to stability, I'll have to give it some though.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 05-27-2014 at 21:52.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  9. #9
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    I think I'm going to give this a try. The plan is to follow d'Arthez' approach, relinquishing Taras and focus on holding Pella long enough to fund a sweep up the Illyrian coast and into the Celtic interior. Hopefully they'll all be distant enough from other factions to develop them unmolested for a time.

    I might abandon Helenos in Taras, rather than suicide him on Dalminion, for a change.

    I would like to launch an expedition to (re-)take Sicily at some point, that's a medium-term goal.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 05-29-2014 at 16:18.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  10. #10

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    Hope it works out fine, and that the Makedones and KH will be locked in a stalemate. As long as Athenai remains with the KH, Makedonia will find it difficult to get all their troops together in a single superstack. This greatly enhances the chances of survival for Epeiros.

    I do feel a bit of luck is involved. Chremonides could die any turn, and if that happens, KH will experience great difficulties defending Athenai (due to the command star penalties they will experience in auto-calc). It is possible that you have to help KH out, by either breaking sieges in Athenai. This might be easier to achieve if you can somehow get an alliance with KH going (and trade rights with KH would also slightly boost trade income since Pella can then trade with Athenai). You could then join into battle on the defending side. Alternatively you could help KH by reducing the pressure on that city, through pressurizing Demetrias or Korinthos.

    One major problem you will have to face is the limited population bases of Ambrakia and Epidamnos. You will have to rely on Pella for a fair bit of time for recruitment, as you desperately need to develop the Epirote cities.

    Good luck, and hope it works out for you.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    without taras you loose 2/3 of your tax resources if you wish to fallow suit you should present yourself with a mine on northern epiros and go for dalmatia as soon as possible

    the seulekids will pay well for peace with you and the koinon might aswell should be enough for a new mine once you take dalmatia

    your army is affordable once you disband the elephants and the navy but imho you should grab on to taras as much as possible itīs by far your most populated city and a rich one also where you can recruit alot before it even gets close to being depleted even if it gets close to it just disband some akontistai or hoploi to recruit better troops

  12. #12
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    I milked Taras for as long as I held it before the Romans took it; there's no barracks there and I wasn't about to invest in them and start recruiting when I couldn't hold it. Grabbed Dalminion early, Makedon have shown no signs of wanting Pella back yet. I've been using Pella to recruit garrisons for my other holdings so I can roll on to Segestica and complete the Illyrian coast.

    Once that's done I can turn inland. I want Singidunum for Keltohellenikoi, but it has a massive garrison. That'll have to wait for the time being. Naissos and Serdike are more viable, but they'll put me much closer to early conflict with the Getai.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  13. #13

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    Sounds like you had a decent start. Are you able to develop the coastal cities nicely?

    In most of my games the Getai are fairly passive. Just try to avoid sharing borders with them. Unless the Getai have expanded southwards, Serdike should be safe for you to take. It also tends to be a lot easier to get peace if you do not share a border with them. I am not 100% if Serdike comes with mines as well, but if it does, then you already have the start of a solid economy.

    How is the conflict working out in Southern Greece?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sounds like you had a decent start. Are you able to develop the coastal cities nicely?

    In most of my games the Getai are fairly passive. Just try to avoid sharing borders with them. Unless the Getai have expanded southwards, Serdike should be safe for you to take. It also tends to be a lot easier to get peace if you do not share a border with them. I am not 100% if Serdike comes with mines as well, but if it does, then you already have the start of a solid economy.

    How is the conflict working out in Southern Greece?

  14. #14
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    It's 266BC, I've now got Segestica, and have the client ruler set to building mines shortly. Finished building mines in Dalminion. So my mining income is now rather substantial, which is good because Makedonia decided to blockade Pella, though they didn't follow up with any land forces. I've just raised a mostly-mercenary army for Pyrrhos to go pillaging in the south; KH have run down their armies so need the help. I don't intend to hold anything, because I don't want to wipe Makedonia out. But I will clear out their armies, and perhaps wreck some barracks if need be.

    I've not recruited out of anywhere but Pella so far, Ambrakia and Epidamnos just hit the next size tier.

    The Getai have been trying to expand, they've lost some big stacks on the rebel cities around them. I've been gifting the Eleutheroi some serious cash via the console, so they've done recruiting.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  15. #15

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    The second tier comes with a lot of income and population-growing structures, so it should be fairly straightforward to get to 4000 population, and then the occasional recruitment of units won't impact the cities that badly. The numbers for the Illyrian cities will be slightly lower, since you'd probably end up recruiting infantry in Greece and cavalry in Illyria.

    Have you been able to get peace with the Romans? Have they expanded northwards in Italy? It could get slightly tricky if you end up having borders with the Romani, Getai, KH and Makedonia at the same time. But even then, your economy should be rock solid (2nd level mines in Dalminion, Segestica and Pella should net you 12,000 Mnai / turn). More than enough to look into consolidating your hold on Illyria, by conquering Singidinum in particular.

    You can expand southwards in Greece without getting additional borders (Thermon excepted, depending on the ownership of Korinthos). This allows for "slow campaigns" so you can consolidate your positions and hold over Greece, rather than having to blitz to avoid having to deal with lengthy borders. When you take Demetrias that should break the back of Makedonia. Chances are KH will take Korinthos and Chalkis shortly after that, leaving Makedonia nothing more than Mytilene.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    pella dalminion segestica serdike naisse epidamnos tylis bizantion and athens all have mines and their importance is as i stated

    milking taras should have been in terms of population hire akontistai ferry them over to your capital to bolster the population taras is by far your most populous city all others you might aswell just enslave it to divide the population get slaves and get a booster on population growth

    the getai go 1st for kellitis 1st and then they concentrate on the orca cordinau wich always screws them up bigtime you should take the time to get naissos get a client ruller and build forts all over the danube

    thats why i always build around 12 forts on the danube at least so they donīt have a direct route to my cities and ofc a few secondary forts just to make sure i can ferry 1 unit from kallatis or tylis directly to segestica in 1 turn

    also in places like the scordiscii land naissos and segestica (not so much the war with the romans deplet it alot) once they hit 6.000 population the problem is controlling the population

    my regular armies are mostly boiii gallothracian the auriates(illirian levy spearmen) and illirian clubmen because of the excess population in those places since the client rullers seems like he comes with a population booster because he reduces squealor

    also use those armies to replenish depleted cityīs and get them all to 6.000 population means taxes wich means money

    i wuv the balkan wars and all those great mines

    the best campaign is the makedonian one since you get the mines and the aegean trade as resources and you get to kick out the epirotes to italy and the kh to mikra asia

    also if the getai piss you off you might just aswell take their 2 regions wich are also rich in mines

    against the sauromatae should be easy stone forts and speciallized archers armies on the secondary forts so you can lift the sieges

    then once thats done send army after army against the romans in northern italy and gift it to the edui or arverni be carefull they donīt take out massillia or else the romans will be a massie thorn at you western border when you are ready to take mikra asia and send out a 5-7 rmies attack pparticulry to conquer rhodos and sinope

  17. #17
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    260BC now, the Makedonians don't seem to want to make much war, they blockaded Pella's port, then wandered off. Still no land attack; I took Serdike in the meantime waiting for them to get going and still nothing. I'm now in the position where I'm rolling in money, but don't have the population to recruit from. I've even taken to hiring mercs just to demobilise them in settlements I want more people in. I really don't need any more mines (developing the one in Serdike) and I don't particularly want to go into the cauldron that is Greece proper. There's a comfortable stalemate there which I'm observing, but not intervening in. Not unless I can ensure KH and Makedonia can survive elsewhere (KH is easy since they have Rhodos, I could give them Krete; Makedonia is harder since Mytilene is vulnerable). Maybe I could re-install both in Asia Minor, or perhaps the Bosphoros. I might take Nikaia to give to the Getai for that reason.

    I really want to take Singidunum, but the garrison there is mad (Thracian elites, Gallathraikes, Thracian peltasts, etc). I'll need a proper army to do that, once I get recruiting properly I'll have a go. My army presently is a couple of levy phalanxes, a couple of mercenary hoplites, thracian peltasts, mercenary thureophoroi and kretan archers.

    I used Force Diplomacy to get peace with the Romans once they took Taras. We've ignored each other since, they've been slowly trying to take Rhegion, and I added loads of Neitos to the garrisons of Segesta, Bononia and Patavium to deter them from going north for a while.

    I don't kill factions, makes the game less interesting to me, and I try to make sure the AI doesn't kill each other, either.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  18. #18

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    then i got a surprise for you maks will become the new troy they always did on my epeiros campaignwhile the greeks will become the yavana the eastern greeks from hallikarnasus and if the arverni join in the party with seulekids ptolemaioi and pontians in the mix it becomes very fun to watch and you might even get the hellenes to accept protectorate status

    i normally had all the balkans taken except getai by 265 and i was building up mines like crazy and by 260 all my mines would be complete and i would have a large trireme ships blocking italy and he seulecids while keeping 3 armies of levies like gallotraikes illirian thureporoi boii swordman "protecting" segesta bononia and patavium from both the aedui and the romans 2 armies in mikra asia watching over the maks and the kh and 2 armies in the getic border and i was still swimming in money

    the city you said itīs hard to take indeed thats the home of the cordinau orca of the scordiscii my favourite soldiers in the entire game my garrisons where far larger then the average including schytian archers my armies are generaless as you can imagine no need to deplet the soldiers moral by having a royal showing them how much they lack to become real men

    ofc thats my makedonian campaign where conquering krete means adding in like 2.000 mnai imediatly to your trade income and ofc the peace treaty with the kh from rhodos helped

    then after that initial stage i take like 50 years up to 200 bc (i gotta wait until i got the top barracks in the conquered territories before starting the ssimilation process particulary in serdike and naissos ) until i go to full war with the romans

    ofc the romans will cost you a fortune in both men and money but better then destroying them or allowing the epirotes to be destroyed and ofc itīs very fun arriving in italy hiring an entire army and to to lift the siege but you get to have 3 protectorates altough i still gotta discover how the hell do i get getai to accept protectorate status

    - - - Updated - - -

    then i got a surprise for you maks will become the new troy they always did on my epeiros campaignwhile the greeks will become the yavana the eastern greeks from hallikarnasus and if the arverni join in the party with seulekids ptolemaioi and pontians in the mix it becomes very fun to watch and you might even get the hellenes to accept protectorate status

    i normally had all the balkans taken except getai by 265 and i was building up mines like crazy and by 260 all my mines would be complete and i would have a large trireme ships blocking italy and he seulecids while keeping 3 armies of levies like gallotraikes illirian thureporoi boii swordman "protecting" segesta bononia and patavium from both the aedui and the romans 2 armies in mikra asia watching over the maks and the kh and 2 armies in the getic border and i was still swimming in money

    the city you said itīs hard to take indeed thats the home of the cordinau orca of the scordiscii my favourite soldiers in the entire game my garrisons where far larger then the average including schytian archers my armies are generaless as you can imagine no need to deplet the soldiers moral by having a royal showing them how much they lack to become real men

    ofc thats my makedonian campaign where conquering krete means adding in like 2.000 mnai imediatly to your trade income and ofc the peace treaty with the kh from rhodos helped

    then after that initial stage i take like 50 years up to 200 bc (i gotta wait until i got the top barracks in the conquered territories before starting the ssimilation process particulary in serdike and naissos ) until i go to full war with the romans

    ofc the romans will cost you a fortune in both men and money but better then destroying them or allowing the epirotes to be destroyed and ofc itīs very fun arriving in italy hiring an entire army and to to lift the siege but you get to have 3 protectorates altough i still gotta discover how the hell do i get getai to accept protectorate status

  19. #19
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    I feel like I'm inadvertently playing Pergamon in this game, my army is composed almost entirely of mercenaries. Mercenaries I could recruit, mind, if I wasn't concerned about depopulating my settlements. I'm wondering if I should add some levy units (besides Deuteroi) to my army just to make battles harder.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  20. #20
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    I grabbed Singidunum and will soon have Naissos too. Old Pyrrhos is still alive, he's turned into a Supervisor having been sat in Pella for a long while!

    Having struggled for FMs for a decade and even resorting to recruiting an Allied General, I'm now awash with them, I've got four youngsters in Ambrakia learning how to be good leaders, but will need something to do soon. I don't intend on turning all those client kingdoms into factional holdings any time soon.

    I'm about to recruit a second army to protect my "north" which is almost entire client kingdoms (the two new additions will be, since there's no factional troops recruitable there anyway). My "royal army" is presently:
    1x Family Member
    1x Hellenistic Mercenary General
    1x Curepos
    1x Hippakontistai
    1x Pezhetairoi
    2x Deuteroi Phalangitai
    1x Hoplitai
    1x Hoplitai Haploi
    1x Thureophoroi
    1x Illyrioi Thureophoroi
    1x Sphendonetai (I wanted Iaosatae but can't find any mercs...)
    1x Kretan Archers
    1x Akontistai
    1x Thraikioi Peltastai

    The northern army will be more "barbarian" in character, I'm thinking no phalanxes (or at most a single levy unit) with lots of Gauls, Illyrians and Thracians. I'll retain some Hoplitai (to hold the centre) and a unit of Kretan archers. I'm expecting they'll be fighting the Getai soon.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  21. #21

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    Sounds like your game is developing nicely Quintus. I am not 100% certain, but I think Iaosatae could be regional recruits in some of your conquered provinces.

    By now your population base should have expanded significantly as well in Pella and Ambrakia. Your newly conquered territories probably suffer from a lack of population at the moment. You'll have to spend time to improve the infrastructure and economy of those client kingdoms first. And maybe assimilate them in due time.

    Have you created a navy to establish control of the Adriatic and to deal with the pirates if they are a nuisance?

    How much have the Getai expanded? And what is happening in Southern Greece? Still a stalemate between the Makedones and the KH?

  22. #22
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    According to the Recruitment Viewer (which may not be accurate for 1.2, mind), I can't recruit Iaosatae in any of them. Other Gallic troops (Gaeroas, Lugoae, Keltohellenikoi), but for some reason no archers or slingers. I can't even get mercenary Iaosatae, which is a bit weird, because you can get them in Anatolia as mercs. I don't need them, Sphendonetai are better slingers (if much weaker melee combatants), but they make a nice bit of regional colour.

    I've been helping the populations of my client kingdoms by disbanding mercs every now and then - Segestica and Dalminion are towns now - but none of them have the barracks for recruiting anything but their garrisons yet. That's the next step soon.

    I don't have a navy yet, the other two Greek factions are keeping the pirates at bay for now. Though given that I'm adding money to the Eleutheroi every now and then by the console, piracy will become an issue. I can see some big stacks of them in certain places on the map that will cause trouble eventually.

    The Getai have stalled after adding Sarmiszegethusa. They had a go at Kallatis, Ak-Ink and Naissos a few times, but failed. Greece is still a stalemate - I've facilitated that a little by transporting any army mobilised out of Mytilene or Rhodos across. I did also go to war with the Makedonians briefly, I besieged Demetrias for a bit, but didn't assault it, then retreated when they didn't seem to respond. They attacked with a force half the size of my army as I left, which I shattered, then FD'd peace. I'd won a battle which seemed enough to cap off the conflict.

    Elsewhere in the world, I've been keeping the Romani bottled up in Italy by adding units to the garrisons of Segesta, Bononia and Patavium. They've finally started to expand into Sicily and fight the Qarthadastim. That should keep them occupied a goodly while.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  23. #23
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    Here's what the world currently looks like:



    The army is my royal army, just putting a northern army together near Singidunum.

    Pyrrhos just died, so I think now is a consolidation phase after the mad rush to add territory.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 06-05-2014 at 18:27.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  24. #24

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    It looks like you have carved out a stable, and viable kingdom of your own.

    Have the Getai even bothered to send small armies to you? Thy might have, since they do not share a border with the Sauromatae. Economically and strategically you have little to gain from the Getic lands (other than wiping out the sole threat at the northern border). But as Naissos is still not under Getic rule, the only place that is under any sort of threat is Singidunum. Taking out the Getai would have merit if you'd try to take Kallatis, Tylis and Byzantion, before venturing into Asia Minor. Mind you that the Eleutheroi controlled areas will suffer from limited population bases as well. But that is more of a long term plan for you (if you can avoid a conflict with the Sauromatae that might be the result of expanding in that direction).

    This consolidation phase may well start with attempts to isolate future / current enemies diplomatically, building up navies if they have a role to play in the forthcoming conflicts as well. One idea would be to form an alliance with the Kart-Hadast against the SPQR. Role-playing wise, the new King may actually want to establish complete control of the Greek lands, and thus weaken Makedonia diplomatically. The Makedones, without support from either the AS or the Ptolemaoi, might be a tempting target.

  25. #25
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    The Getai haven't been interested in me at all. Indeed I was besieging Naissos then broke it off when I realised that would fairly inevitably bring me into their orbit. I don't really need the coastal settlements yet, and they seem pretty safe for the time being, so I'll leave alone as long as I can.

    My next phase I think will be an expedition to Sicily. I've got about four young FMs with nothing to do sitting in Ambrakia, a bold campaign to restore the throne of Sicily would be a good way to keep Pyrrhos' grandson Pyrrichos (who's pretty good this time around) occupied. Besides, the Romani and Qarthadastim don't seem to be serious about expansion there. I'll delay any further expansion of my northern army (it has it's core already) and start recruiting for the invasion, and raise a fleet. I'll take Corsica in the process of doing so, too, that should help fund the army to allow me to retain Sicily when the Romans eventually come knocking. Maybe once that's settled, I'll retake southern Italy.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  26. #26
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    my experience is that if you use your elephants well you can conquer all macedonian territory withing a few years. if you want to completely kill them (aka also take that island infront of turkey) you will have to sacrifice taranto. if you want to keep taranto, you have to put up a heck of a defence, have some luck that the romans dont come asap, and be perfect in your assaults on the macedonian cities, then you can conquer the greek mainland and sail around to relieve pella just in time :P

    the epirote blitz is one of the most difficult but also fun to play. very rewarding if you pull it off though, just with the elephants you can conquer greece and italy within 20 years.

    We do not sow.

  27. #27
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    I'm not blitzing, I don't find it fun. I am moving at a faster than my normal pace, though.

    I launched my invasion of Sicily. Messana and Alalia fell easily, fortunately I was able to take Syrakousai by battle, rather than siege:



    Now it's a proper war with the Qarthadastim:



    I intend to teleport some of their stacks from Africa and Spain to fight me in Sicily, at least I'll get some proper battles that way. Between Syrakousai's huge population and pre-existing barracks, and the big pool of mercenaries available on the island, I'll have lots of troops to work with.

    Then when I've taken Lilibeo, a swift invasion of Karali and then turn my attentions to southern Italy. As you can see Taras is rebel; it revolted to me and I left it to revolt again. I don't want a war with the Romani yet, not til Sicily is secure. I'm looking forward to padding out my force with Samnites, Bruttians, Lucanians and Tarentines when the time comes.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; 06-07-2014 at 01:38.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  28. #28
    EBII Hod Carrier Member QuintusSertorius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    237BC and the islands immediately west of Italia are mine:



    Pictured is the army that did it, though it's been disbanded in large part to stock garrisons and be remade as a more regional force for the defense of Sicily. And later invasion of southern Italia. I'll be adding more Greeks and Italians to it and gearing up for the next phase.

    I also need to launch an expedition to liberate Sinope, which fell to Pontos. I think I'll give it to Koinon Hellenon afterwards. Might give Krete to Makedonia as well.
    It began on seven hills - an EB 1.1 Romani AAR with historical house-rules (now ceased)
    Heirs to Lysimachos - an EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR with semi-historical houserules (now ceased)
    Philetairos' Gift - a second EB 1.1 Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  29. #29

    Default Re: Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

    education i never mentioned it but in sparta i take the kids there and when they reach 18/20 years (once they finish the agoge ) they are sent to athens so they can get the secret itīs a really cool gameplay and ofc if you develop the right buildings when they turn 20/22 you got great governors in prospect particulry if they excelled in the spartan agoge but try to limit the amount of aux they get in sparta since you want the ones who give charisma and money stuff so a geomancer and a mine engineer or an inventor are must haves for the future governors of pella and dalminion so it might be worth to trade them around from older members of the family to younger ones

    dudes like the ass are great i got that dude alive for like 140 years XD

    also if they get the krypteia trait itīs also nice to have in future generals

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