Have I been missing out on Epeiros all this time?

[moonburn]

herm i enjoy a slowpaced game thats why fter those initial crazy turns after i set forts everywhere (they are also very usefull to move around troops fast since the distance can be covered by 10 units instead of just 1 if you got forts in all the right places while they slowdown your enemies advance for a pitifull 3.000 mnai for the entire fort garrison )

forts are also usefull besides those 2 uses as places to keep your army or armies i normally keep them in the secondary forts who can reach the front line forts in 1 turn while i keep my family general in the nearest city with good use you can keep your borders stable for decades

and yes forts not psf

segestica the scordascii orca and the other place with no mines i use client kings prticulary the other 2 places are great recruitment centers for the gallic troops who make up my flanks and sword bearing stone wall defenders

also make peace with the getai before you have a border with them (i might be confusing this with the maks campaign tough) but not too soon that they might take away your schytian and keltic recruitment centers (altough i doubt they can take the scordascii orca homeland so go for the city in the black sea 1st right after naissos since i saw the getai fail 20 times their attempted conquest before winning the scordascii orca hometown)

it´s basically an early sprint and then you get 20 to 30 years of peace to build up except for italy ofc but don´t blitz italy set up mercenary armies in northern italy to contain the roman expansion it´s easy to do once you get your mines up and running

and ofc if you wait long enough you get to sitback and watch the koinon and the maks go at each others throat time and time again in hellas proper and in mikra asia and in mikra asia it´s even more fun cause you get to see how they interact with the seulekids and the pontians

use the console to transport the spartan army back to the mainland preferably to attica that tends to keep the forces balanced out

ofc this is the reason why i prefer the makedonian campaign you kick the epirotes to italy and the kh to mikra asia and the cash boost from the aegean trade is wonderfull you get to have enough cash for 5 strong field armies and an extremly powerfull navy with your northern border well defended by your client kings you just sit and wait it out

[d'Arthez]

I don't think it is too much of a stretch to suggest that Pyrrhos would be a bit impulsive, and possibly try to take on more than he could handle. So a first turn siege of Pella is certainly not out of the question.

A slow playing option that could be reasonably viable is to withdraw all the forces from Italy to Greece, and let Taras rebel / be taken by the Romans. Take Pella with the superior forces at your disposal, and then disband the elephants. They'd be eating in your income too much (certainly if you do not opt to siege Demetrias on turn 1 as well, with your elephants as mobile battering rams. This can be done, but would certainly not be something you'd be thrilled about). Since then you'd only share a border with the Makedones, who have their fair share of conflicts as well, it should be possible to defend from that, especially if you can get them to throw themselves at Athenai. They should not be allowed to capture Athenai, because then your provinces are starting to look very, very attractive, even if KH manage to get Korinthos in return.

Obvious first targets are up the Illyrian coast, to develop the mines there, and rake in the dough. As you expand your financial base, you can slowly start meddling into the affairs of Southern Greece. Usually the Getai do not really start causing havoc soon. They'll need time to conquer their surroundings, and they may even go for something that is relatively remote, such as Ak-Ink, or Kallatis. That would certainly not directly interfere with your agenda.

Such an approach (relying on Ambrakia, Epidamnos and Pella) requires some serious diplomacy and defensive skills. Without Pella, the two Greek Epirote provinces are hardly viable to survive the diplomatic nightmare at the game start. Getting peace with the Romans in particular could significantly boost trade income. That would leave you only the KH and Makedonia to deal with. The tricky bit is to ensure that neither KH or Makedonia become dominant in Greece, until you are ready to strike.

Just my two cents.

[QuintusSertorius]

Well, there's slow and then there's slow. In my current Pergamon game, I didn't expand out of Mysia for the first 200 turns (50 years). It's a really rich province, so you can get away with that. I focused my external efforts on seeding the nearby settlements with spies and keeping my assassins busy, along with swatting the occasional invasion.
@Ludens - you might be right. I guess the only way I'll know for sure is to try it some time.
@d'Arthez, that's an intriguing roadmap to stability, I'll have to give it some though.

[QuintusSertorius]

I think I'm going to give this a try. The plan is to follow d'Arthez' approach, relinquishing Taras and focus on holding Pella long enough to fund a sweep up the Illyrian coast and into the Celtic interior. Hopefully they'll all be distant enough from other factions to develop them unmolested for a time.

I might abandon Helenos in Taras, rather than suicide him on Dalminion, for a change.

I would like to launch an expedition to (re-)take Sicily at some point, that's a medium-term goal.

[d'Arthez]

Hope it works out fine, and that the Makedones and KH will be locked in a stalemate. As long as Athenai remains with the KH, Makedonia will find it difficult to get all their troops together in a single superstack. This greatly enhances the chances of survival for Epeiros.

I do feel a bit of luck is involved. Chremonides could die any turn, and if that happens, KH will experience great difficulties defending Athenai (due to the command star penalties they will experience in auto-calc). It is possible that you have to help KH out, by either breaking sieges in Athenai. This might be easier to achieve if you can somehow get an alliance with KH going (and trade rights with KH would also slightly boost trade income since Pella can then trade with Athenai). You could then join into battle on the defending side. Alternatively you could help KH by reducing the pressure on that city, through pressurizing Demetrias or Korinthos.

One major problem you will have to face is the limited population bases of Ambrakia and Epidamnos. You will have to rely on Pella for a fair bit of time for recruitment, as you desperately need to develop the Epirote cities.

Good luck, and hope it works out for you.

[moonburn]

without taras you loose 2/3 of your tax resources if you wish to fallow suit you should present yourself with a mine on northern epiros and go for dalmatia as soon as possible

the seulekids will pay well for peace with you and the koinon might aswell should be enough for a new mine once you take dalmatia

your army is affordable once you disband the elephants and the navy but imho you should grab on to taras as much as possible it´s by far your most populated city and a rich one also where you can recruit alot before it even gets close to being depleted even if it gets close to it just disband some akontistai or hoploi to recruit better troops

[QuintusSertorius]

I milked Taras for as long as I held it before the Romans took it; there's no barracks there and I wasn't about to invest in them and start recruiting when I couldn't hold it. Grabbed Dalminion early, Makedon have shown no signs of wanting Pella back yet. I've been using Pella to recruit garrisons for my other holdings so I can roll on to Segestica and complete the Illyrian coast.

Once that's done I can turn inland. I want Singidunum for Keltohellenikoi, but it has a massive garrison. That'll have to wait for the time being. Naissos and Serdike are more viable, but they'll put me much closer to early conflict with the Getai.