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  1. #1
    Norse Uikikr Member Mithridate's Avatar
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    Default Hotseat starter guide


    All credits to Zippo514 for this image http://zippo514.deviantart.com/art/L...eart-376468095

    Contents:
    Introduction
    Beginner
    Participation
    Tips


    Introduction
    Hi and welcome to the Westeros Totalwar Hotseat subforum! As you can see we are quite an active hotseat community, probably the most active on this forum besides the general Multiplayer hotseat section. I hope this guide can help new and experienced players about the basics of Westeros hotseats. Don't expect to be a pro after reading this, only through experience in playing hotseats can you become a good player.

    We play hotseats only with submods, as the original Westeros Alpha is too broken to be played.
    We mostly play with the enhanced submod, my own King of Rivers and Hills submod or the Blackfyre Rebellion submod. Each hotseat topic will state in its title or in the opening post which submod is used.

    Beginner
    If you have played hotseats before you can skip this part.

    Hotseats are multiplayer campaigns, not by playing in real time but by playing with saves.
    Here is how it works:
    Admin sets up a hotseat and creates the first save(more on that later).

    Player one(almost always House Lannister) downloads the first save and puts it in Medieval II Totalwar/mods/modfolder(e.g: Westeros)/saves.
    He starts the mod, and loads the save as he would normally load any save.
    He comes at the hotseat screen.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

    Here he finds some general information about the hotseat and here he can set his password. After he has set his password he can start the turn. Remember this password, as each time you play a turn you have to first type your password before you can play it.
    Now he can start playing his first turn.

    After he is done with his turn he ends (VERY IMPORTANT!) the turn. After he has ended the turn the same hotseat screen comes up but now for the second player (often House Tyrell). Now he saves the game by using the format the admin provided. Often it is like this: hotseatname_house_turnnumber.

    Now he uploads the save file he just made to the hotseats topic. The save can be uploaded on any uploading site or directly on this site using the attachments feature. (Note however that this site does not support the .sav extension and you have to pack your save by using a program like winrar).
    After that he notifies the next player with a pm or a post on his profile.

    Now the second player can download the save file the first player uploaded and the process repeats itself.

    Participation
    If you want to participate in a Westeros hotseat, simply state in a new hotseat topic that you want to join that particular hotseat. You can also join as a sub or replacement for a member that leaves an already started hotseat. Hotseats that need players will post in the Replacement player thread. It is not advised to start a new hotseat topic if you have never played hotseats before.

    Be warned however, most hotseats have a long time span and require you to be active for a long time on these forums, at least for a few months. Most hotseats have a 24h rule, which means your turn can come up pretty quickly and when it does you don't have a lot of time to play. When playing hotseats it is advised to be online at least once a day. If you can't do that then there is no point in joining any hotseats.

    Tips

    General tips

    • Read the opening post of the hotseat topic and in particularly the rules.
    • Stick to these rules or you will be punished, this can even lead to a ban from all hotseats in the subforum.
    • Try to make alliances and treaties with other players through personal messages or ingame messages (done by opening the diplomatic tab and clicking the faction's banner).
    • Don't cheat.
    • Don't use any bugs, these are often detailed in the opening post.
    • Always notify the next player.
    • Contact the admin if you think another player has broken the rules before you post that in the topic.
    • Betraying is allowed, this is game of thrones after all. But it is frowned upon and you risk making an enemy out of everyone.
    • Pick an easy faction, Lannister or Tyrell if available.


    Play tips:
    • Have a clear plan on what you want to do in this hotseats, setting a goal for yourself can help.
    • Try to know where your enemies are and what they are doing.
    • Only attack if you know absolutely sure the opponent has not set up a trap, again know your enemies positions.
    • Always make sure you are the attacker, as they seem to have a slight advantage in hotseats.
    • Build forts and watchtowers.
    • Try to move your troops around in large armies, depending on the situation of course.
    • Be prepared to lose your first 2 or 3 hotseats.
    • Play a lot of hotseats to become more experienced.


    Westeros specific:
    • There are no spies and only a very few assassins and priests in Westeros Total War. So use diplomats to scout the enemy and use watchtowers to guard your lands.
    • There are no siege engines, so be prepared for sieges that take at least a turn.
    • Forts are a really important component of Westeros Total War, use them wisely.
    • Settlements can't upgrade, so don't invest in improving growth rates buildings.
    • Most settlements have a good set of pre-build buildings, including economic buildings, so focus primarily on training units.


    All credits to Dux for this basically copy-pasted and very handly little guide^^
    Please direct any questions to @Myth and @Nightbringer
    Last edited by Mithridate; 05-29-2014 at 12:25.

  2. #2
    Norse Uikikr Member Mithridate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    If you dont want to read above, here is a good video on how you hotseat. ( you should still read above, some very good tips in the paragraphs. )



    Cheers dux and loose, as loose says you have to read em both to really understand hotseating.
    Dux summation is very nice too and should be read by any beginner.

    We have some solid guides here but id like to add a little of my own:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Auto-Resolve and how it works
    A key part in hotseating is carrying out the fighting and this is usually only done with auto-resolve, it can be just as important to have the right troops as it is to do the right moves. Exactly how AR engine works i do not know and have found little to no information but the cause and effect is easy to see.

    The AR engine uses Troop numbers, attack, Total defence ( armor+skill+shield+hp ) in addition to certain traits when calculating odds and whom wins a fight.

    ESTIMATIONS Effective vs armor counts as 1 or 2 attack, good stamina as 1 or 2 defense while very good and excellent each adds 1-2 more. Furthermore, these bonuses are not calculated in ar odds. So an army of Ironborn raiders with 1 chevron looks as if they will lose bad vs Armored spears while they in truth win easily.

    Because of this you want heavy troops over light ones, infantry over cavalry. A spear militia army will beat an army of mounted knights for example while costing only a fraction as much to create and maintain. Most archer units have very low attack ( note: missile attack is NOT used in AR ) and are thus both expensive and very poor. Keep in mind that experience, armor and weapon upgrades does add to the units values used in AR! (attack increased by better weapons and experience, defense by better armor) Try not to merge away these things if you can

    Command greatly affects casualties and thus the AR outcome ( note: command does not show up on the calculated odds, but it does greatly affect outcome! ) a 10 star general will decrease your losses in the army he is leading by an incredible amount but its really notable at 5 command already. Because of this you want your best troops with your best generals as he is the hardest one to defeat. When attacking it can be best to let him lead whatever army you want to take the least casualties or the army attacking ( whoever attacks is the one whom will get most if not all the traits from the battle )

    Defense bonuses also affect outcome, an army defending a fortress can be extremely hard to defeat while being easily defeated in the open. I suspect you can get this from defending bridges, hills and forests too but im not sure. The higher the level of the defenses the bigger bonus. It does not improve your AR when attacking however, only when defending.

    Info about the AR to your advantage
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    These are the more... tricky bits of the AR engine

    If you attack say 10 men in a fortress with 100 of your own, youre likely to have HORRIBLE odds but will win every time provided the troops are above rubbish quality. So keep in mind that the "odds" is not always accurate.

    The AR engine seem to have a "breaking point" function for units involved, if a unit is calculated to lose a certain amount of men in % that is over the unknown "breaking point" it seems as they "rout". Its hard to explain but the effect is not. You want to keep your units as large as possible, if you have an army of decimated units you can easily be defeated by a lesser enemy. But if you combine your men to keep each unit strong he wont be able to. 20 units of 20 men ( 400 men ) is MUCH weaker than 4 units of 400 men. Also, you risk losing additional men to this as sometimes small units gets destroyed even though they have very few men left after a battle.

    You want to keep your strongest units first in the order of your men, this is the general consensus. I cant tell you how this is but im pretty sure this is due to the "breaking point". Either way, do it! If you are sure to win however, its better to keep easily replaced troops first. You will always lose a certain ( attack/def+number of men) value, and i rather lose 10 militia to gain that value than 3 armored swordsmen. But make sure to swap back so you end the turn with your best units first

    If you can, attack the weaker army as the heaviest losses are usually taken by the main attacker and defender army.
    because of this youre more likely to hit the "breaking point", the advantage is slight but supposedly there. Its possible that you may not be able to beat the Main enemy head on, but beat him when he reinforces only. Either way, youre more likely to cause more losses.

    Keep these things in mind and you can turn a defeat into a victory, expensive victory into a cheap one, it may very well win you the war!
    What you want in your commanders

    All credits to Zippo514 for this image http://zippo514.deviantart.com/art/L...eart-376468095

    When choosing whom should be your main commander you should check them out properly, some characters will never be a good commander while others can become great! You want traits that cannot be affected by fighting battles, like "social drinker" "born to command" and "intelligent". As opposed to "proven commander" "confident attacker" "fierce in battle".

    Adopting someone whom is a born commander but unproven can easily reach 6 command by one or two battles, 8 after many and 10 if he gets a little lucky. While an Proven commander will have a hard time to reach 6 command, very hard to reach 8 and downright impossible to get 10. I try to use the ones with potential, really adds up in the long run. But let your armies be commanded ( when not attacking! ) by those with the most command.

    Look for +movement traits, these can be very valuable as 1 square can be the difference between losing everything or destroying your enemy. At least look for this when adopting new people, its pretty easy to get a drillmaster +15% movement and it really helps to get your men to the front lines. Try playing stannis with his 30% of some of the 20-25% greyjoy commanders and you will realize it can be a HUGE thing. If im sure my army is safe i often let my general with the most +movement lead it and only put my high command guy in charge when attacking/defending.

    I often find people using the "i cant get better" good command guy over the "im ok, but i can become great... and look how i make my men FLY!"

    Summary

    For best AR-odds
    • High attack/defence units with a lot of men in them.
    • Good generals leading your best armies, command is key
    • Upgrade your men, dont waste experienced men!
    • Try different combinations


    Generals
    • Natural commanders over Proven commanders
    • +movement can make all the difference
    • Potential over Talent when able


    Hotseating can be bloody hard, but give it time... Knowledge will give you that little extra for the start and help you peak, but experience is the way. Give it time, dont expect to win at first and play with care and have fun

    Please direct any questions to @Myth and @Nightbringer
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    Last edited by Mithridate; 05-29-2014 at 12:27.

  3. #3
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    So in general the Westeros mod did not change the vanilla M2TW AR engine? If that is the case then I know exactly how to build my stacks. The nasty surprisese like Stainless Steel turning it head over heels are what I detest when it comes to mods who dabble with the AR engine.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  4. #4
    Norse Uikikr Member Mithridate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    They have, you rarely get different results for land battles. It is nearly utterly futile to attempt reloading results unless the battle is very close fought.
    What is the major change between SS and vanilla, fairly similar to me but possibly with easier assaults.

    Never did play much vanilla hotseating aside from that one time I played the unstoppable Aztec^^

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    So in general the Westeros mod did not change the vanilla M2TW AR engine? If that is the case then I know exactly how to build my stacks. The nasty surprisese like Stainless Steel turning it head over heels are what I detest when it comes to mods who dabble with the AR engine.
    For the most part, no. But Greyjoy armies and navies tend to be a tad OP. A single Greyjoy ship can sink an entire fleet of mainlander ships, and a Greyjoy army can often defeat an army many times its own size: Case and Point

  6. #6
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithridate View Post
    They have, you rarely get different results for land battles. It is nearly utterly futile to attempt reloading results unless the battle is very close fought.
    What is the major change between SS and vanilla, fairly similar to me but possibly with easier assaults.

    Never did play much vanilla hotseating aside from that one time I played the unstoppable Aztec^^
    Vanilla, Kingdoms etc. they have the regular AR engine where infantry is king. Stainless Steel gave much better odds for cavalry and archers, to the point where militia crossbowmen perform better than regular militia and 4 scholariii can AR a stack of 10 arab spearmen with 16 defence each.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  7. #7
    Los Pollos Hermanos Member Uriyaca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    Wierd forum! why do everyone have two avatars? :P :P
    Whatever... my new home I guess :\

    In any way, I think it would be nice if you could add my forting guide in there ^^

  8. #8
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Uriyaca View Post
    Wierd forum! why do everyone have two avatars? :P :P
    Whatever... my new home I guess :\

    In any way, I think it would be nice if you could add my forting guide in there ^^
    @Uriyaca sure, post it up! I'll sticky it. If it's a general forting guide we can post it in the main section (Throne Room). You can check my own hotseat guide there. Did the double avatars thing persist for you? I can get tech to look into it, it's definitely not the case for me.

    Also, which theme are you using for the forum? I'm using Morbid, though The Guild or Frontpage will be closer to the TWC colours if you like them.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  9. #9
    Los Pollos Hermanos Member Uriyaca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    @Uriyaca sure, post it up! I'll sticky it. If it's a general forting guide we can post it in the main section (Throne Room). You can check my own hotseat guide there. Did the double avatars thing persist for you? I can get tech to look into it, it's definitely not the case for me.

    Also, which theme are you using for the forum? I'm using Morbid, though The Guild or Frontpage will be closer to the TWC colours if you like them.
    I've used the Guild, as I think it looks the best one :) . I fixed the avatar thing, turns out I just enables in my setting to see the profile pics in forum posts :P lol

    Here is the link to my guide in TWC, from the scriptorium (greatest library of total war guides in the world, proud to have it up out there ^^) http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...nd-Fortwalling
    It is general about forting but more focused on Westeros tho
    Last edited by Uriyaca; 05-30-2014 at 21:50.

  10. #10
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    Can't be the greatest because it doesn't have @frogbeastegg 's guides for TW games which are the most sought after TW related resource apart from the Medieval 2 source code.

    Can you please make a new thread and post it? Even if you just copy and paste it, I'll edit the formatting to fit your original post.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  11. #11
    Los Pollos Hermanos Member Uriyaca's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hotseat starter guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Can't be the greatest because it doesn't have @frogbeastegg 's guides for TW games which are the most sought after TW related resource apart from the Medieval 2 source code.

    Can you please make a new thread and post it? Even if you just copy and paste it, I'll edit the formatting to fit your original post.
    Sure, once I get home :thumbsup2:
    Edit: sigh, I'm going to have to get used to the new emoticons... :thumbsdow

    Edit 2: here you go

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Forting and Fortwalling

    Forting is a way of keeping away enemy forces by blocking his passage using fort's ZoC. Since there are no siege equipments or in WTW, forting is a critical tool to know how to use when hotseating.
    The uses of forting are so diverse, that not knowing how to use them is a major disadvantage. In this guide I will teach you how to use forts and how to master the art of fortwalling

    Forts: what are they?

    Fort is a short term for "fortification" . Forts are essentially a "settlement replica" as they have walls, meaning that they cannot be stormed without either being under siege for at least one turn, attacked with siege equipments (which are not recruitable in WTW mods and submods, other then KORAH but this is illegale in some hotseats) , have their walls opened by spies (which are also unrecruitable in Westeros Hotseat unless you choose to accept a spies guild, but either way they are normally illegale in hotseats anyway) or bribed by diplomats. Forts (and watchtowers) can only be built by generals. Much like castles, towns and armies, the forts are sorrounded from all sides, from all nine directions, with what appears to be 9 "brown circles" . Those brown circles are called Zone of Control, or in short terms ZoC. When an army lands on any of those "brown circles", all of their movement points are stolen from them. Meaning the cannot move, until the next turn when they get fresh movement points
    Pic:


    Forts: how can you use them?

    The combination of unstormable fortifications with the sorrounding ZoC makes the forts an unpassable blockade, for at least one turn. That can be greatly used for your advantage in hotseats. 1 fort creates a 3 square barricade, 2 forts make a 6 square barricade, and so on and so on.... by positioning your forts wisely, you can accomplish a great deal of needs. By using it you can keep away enemy forces from lifting a siege you have made, seperating the forces to destroy them one at a time or slowing down an enemy's arrival until your forces have come to face them. Another major use is making sure that your armies are not attacked on your enemies turn- in hotseats the attacker has a big advantage, and by placing your armies in forts you can make sure that you are the one attacking. Also that way you can try and manuver armies to help you lift the siege, or try to reload your turn in order to get better results.

    pics for demonstration how useful forts can be:
    1) Maidenpool ready to be besieged

    2) Maidenpool unable to be besieged by using fortwall tactic

    Forting tips:
    1) NEVER, unless you have to and cannot possibly avoid it, (for example, limited spaces to place the forts or lack of movement points) place your forts at a distance of 1 square from one another. Why? two very simple reasons:
    Forts, much like castles and towns, can only have armies on the sorrounding ZoC squares reinforce them. Meaning, when you sally out of a fort against your besieger, all the armies (allied or non allied) that aren't on the fort's ZoC will not be able to reinforce in the battle. When two forts are at a 1 square distance from one another, their ZoC overlap. Because of this, an enemy army can be placed within any of the overlapping ZoC squares, as such participating in both battles but seperating the forces from the two forts. Example: you have two stacks and your enemie has two stacks. In order to make sure that the enemie cannot attack your forces on his turn, you fort your two stacks in two forts BUT you make the critical mistake of placing them 1 square from each other. Then, you enemie takes one of his stacks to besiege one of the forts, and another to besiege the other stack. he places both of his stacks in 2 overlapping ZoC squares. On your turn, when you sally out to fight the enemie stacks, you are outnumbered 2:1, as his two stacks are participating in each battle whilst your stacks are only participating in one.
    When placing a fort two squares from your other forts, you make a bigger barricade and as such taking more of the enemie's movement points.
    2) Try to avoid placing your full armies in forts, because if a situation arises and you are besieged by an army greater then you which you can't defeat, then your entire stacks in insta-gibbed (meaning that your ENTIRE army dies without retreating, along with your generals) . It is better if you for example fort off your army so the enemy armies cannot reach it
    3) Try to avoid placing your armies whom are led by +movement points generals inside forts (also castles and towns btw) becasue then the extra movement points go to waste. It is better to fort off your armies instead
    4) Most hotseats have a "2 forts per region" rule, to limit fortwalling a bit. Almost all hosteats have a "4 units per fort" rule, to limit fort spamming a bit. Almost every hotseat has different rules, so make sure that you read them closely before joining . Most submods (Enhanced\YB, Fire and Blood, Blackfyre Rebellion), as far as I know, have a "1500 dragons" price tag to every fort, except the King of Rivers and Hills submod in which forts cost 500 dragons.
    You have to take all these facts into consideration when you are planning on building a fortwall
    5) If you are not sure if your forts will live up to their purpose, you can try playing a hotseat against yourself, and build an exact replica of the situation in your hotseat. Then you could see if your forts take enough movement points from your enemy.
    6) Other then the regular siege and storm technique to pass\break a fortwall, your enemy can also use diplomats in order to bribe your forts and break through- which can severely mess up your plans and might at times be the difference between winning or losing a war. So you will need to make sure of the following things:
    There are no enemy diplomats in range
    That there is a general garrisoning your forts, that makes the forts ~15 times more expensive to bribe and about ~5 times as hard (as in trying to get the fort they are trying to bribe agree to the bribe, even if they have the money) . If you put a general in a fort, pick the one which is the most loyal because they are more expensive and harder to bribe. You also need to know that Faction Leaders and faction heirs are unbribable. Also if you place any type of agent inside a fort (a merchant, diplomat, princess, priest, spy, or assasin) that fort is also unbribale
    Make sure that the enemy is either broke or unable to afford the bribes, which are normally very expensive
    That if a diplomat is in range that he has low influence- a diplomat with low influence is less likely to succeed in the bribe
    If you have no agents\generals available to help protect the fort from being bribe, and an enemy diplomat is in range and there is a danger of a bribe- put as many men as you can inside that fort to make the bribe as expensive as possible. Try putting the most expensive units which are not neccecerily the most useful (as in inside of placing Knights and Armoured Spearmen which are very good in Autoresolve, put cavalry or Longbowmen which are just as expensive if not more and not as useful in Autoresolve)


    How to build a fortwall?

    Last but not least, comes the question that must be answered. The best way to build a fort wall is this:
    1) Why are you building the fort wall? you will have to adjust the fortwall for its purpose. If it's purpose for example is to delay an enemy, is it to seperate two forces, or something else?
    2) Now, take a look on the map and imagine that it is divided to squares. (that is how TW campaign map is constructed btw, on squares )
    3) check for the best position to place your forts, imagine that the 9 squares sorrounding them are unpassable. Check how wide is the pass you are trying to deny entrance to: do you need to use 1 or 2 or 3 forts?
    4) after you have decided how and where to place your forts, pick the general unit and construct them. Then, pic 4 units to enter each of your forts

    And just like that, ends the SPECTACULAR guide of how to construct forts and fortwalls by the mighty Uriyaca . Hope this could be of use to you, VERY important should you choose to hotseat


    Also, I meant greatest as in general amount of guides, also I'm not sure if it isn't there ;) . There are like 200 guides, you can try and check for it :)
    Last edited by Uriyaca; 05-31-2014 at 16:23.

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