The units in the Barbarian invasion expansion

[VikingPower]

I wanna first state that this is only an inquiry, but not some kind of bullshit appeal that it should be made
a realistic mod for the Barbarian invasion expansion.

In BI then many of the available units are exactly the same, or very generic. Perhaps all in all there are 2-3 special units for each faction,
excluding the Roman empire (Western and Eastern) and the Sassanids.

I am just wondering whether there are enough historical sources and evidences to make a Total war mod during the Migration period,
or the last days of the Western Roman empire.
Like the available units in comparison to EB.

Or is BI a one big cliché/fiction? in regard to all non-civilized factions...

[QuintusSertorius]

Invasio Barbarorum is what you're looking for.

[VikingPower]

I know about Invasio Barbarorum... played it a few years ago.

But what about historical accuracy in regard to the Barbarian factions and their units?

Does the author of Invasio Barbarorum use any specific sources? does he explain his basis?

I know about 'Deeds of the Goths', and the Frankish account of Gregory of Tours, but is
there anything else?

[QuintusSertorius]

I've no idea, late antiquity as a period doesn't interest me in the slightest; I just know IB attempted to do a better job than RTW:BI.

[VikingPower]

Late antiquity can get a bit repetitive, like when emperors needed to go back and forth to fight barbarians at the border,
or against new claimants for the throne. Then there was corruption at the court, mismanagement, and lack of money.

And there was nothing original about the battles and their tactics, like at the Catalaunian fields or at Adrianople.

It is only exceptional men that make an exceptional history... It was ok to read about Julian the Apostate, Belisarius, and Attila.

[Ludens]

I am just wondering whether there are enough historical sources and evidences to make a Total war mod during the Migration period,
or the last days of the Western Roman empire.
Like the available units in comparison to EB

I am no historian, but there's a dearth of sources on Barbarians during EB's time-frame, and that's one of the best documented periods in Classical history. No doubt the situation is far worse during the Empire's decline.

[VikingPower]

I have noticed that some units in EB are like the exact replica of pictures on the internet.
For an example then I can google up 'Celtic/Gallic warrior' and it does show pictures from French schoolbooks or something.
The similar thing applies about 'Iberian warriors', from Spanish history.

It does of course only reach toward the outward appearance, but not the stats.
When the EB team has created units then how much is accurate and how much is fiction?
Is it based upon whim or randomness whether one unit is made more powerful than another? with similar equipment...

There are of course examples of tough soldiers in historical sources.
Like when Scipio Africanus fought against Celtiberians, Caesar against the Helveti, and so forth.
Are there like about 4 'tough' units of each Barbaric factions, based upon historical sources, while all
the other units and their capability is mostly made up?

[athanaric]

I have noticed that some units in EB are like the exact replica of pictures on the internet.
For an example then I can google up 'Celtic/Gallic warrior' and it does show pictures from French schoolbooks or something.
The similar thing applies about 'Iberian warriors', from Spanish history.

It does of course only reach toward the outward appearance, but not the stats.
When the EB team has created units then how much is accurate and how much is fiction?
Is it based upon whim or randomness whether one unit is made more powerful than another? with similar equipment...

There are of course examples of tough soldiers in historical sources.
Like when Scipio Africanus fought against Celtiberians, Caesar against the Helveti, and so forth.
Are there like about 4 'tough' units of each Barbaric factions, based upon historical sources, while all
the other units and their capability is mostly made up?

There are some inaccuracies in EB, but it's nowhere near as sloppy as you seem to suspect. Historical sources not only cover literature (like Polybios, the namesake of EB's "Polybian" Roman units), but also paintings, sculptures, frescoes etc. In short, artwork. Then there are actual finds of weapons and other equipment of course. The relative similarity of unit depictions across modern media is probably due to the fact that the better interpretations draw from the sources that are available. As to what goes into stats, I'm not involved in making EB (or IB) units, but basically, it's a combination of factors like weapon type, social class, degree of professionalisation, level of training etc. Also, EB stats are a lot less random than Vanilla RTW stats - they are very standardized.

[Ludens]

It does of course only reach toward the outward appearance, but not the stats.
When the EB team has created units then how much is accurate and how much is fiction?
Is it based upon whim or randomness whether one unit is made more powerful than another? with similar equipment...

It's certainly not randomness. As I understand it, the team uses a spreadsheet to calculate stats based on equipment; the same formula is used for all units. The only exception that I know of is that unarmoured Barbarian melee units get +1 armour. This was done for the sake of balancing.

However, the equipment a unit has is to a certain extent guesswork. Take thureophoroi: the team concepted them as a middle ground between peltasts (heavy skirmishers) and thorakitai (heavy infantry). In reality, however, military nomenclature was very fluid: the word thureophoroi (which simply means "shield bearer") could have referred to either of the other units.

If I recall correctly, for EB1 the team decided to go with the heavier interpretation of every unit. Hence normal thureophoroi all have some form of armour, and thorakitai are even more heavily armoured. (And this is probably also the reason for the barbarian armour bonus - since other units are likely to be a bit overarmoured, it makes sense to give the unarmoured-but-effective barbarians a slight boost as well.)