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Thread: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

  1. #91
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Hmm: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33041467

    So, if they find wrong doing in the Bids Russia and Qatar might lose their World Cups.

    It's still not all that likely, but it's an actual possibility.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  2. #92
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Seems very likely at this point. Maybe there won't be a WC at all and I am perfectly fine with that considering all of this.

  3. #93
    Member Member GenosseGeneral's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Great! Our public television then might use the 200 million they save for something useful. Like good journalism.

  4. #94
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by GenosseGeneral View Post
    Great! Our public television then might use the 200 million they save for something useful. Like good journalism.
    Reality shows are more likely to get the money.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
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  5. #95
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Qatar may be stripped of WC, but that would be a massive mistake on part of FIFA. The only legitimate reason to do that is if the reported extent of inhumane working conditions is actually true.
    If you buy a mobile phone and a week later it turns out to have been stolen from someone, is there a legitimate reason to impound it and return to the previous owner? The same here: if some deal is found to have involved a crime it should be declared void.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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  6. #96
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Stripping the WC is probably the only thing the FIFA can do if they want to hang onto any credibility that is left, a Qatar wisstleblower has a few things to say about corruption. Blatter is now investigated as well.

  7. #97
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    If you buy a mobile phone and a week later it turns out to have been stolen from someone, is there a legitimate reason to impound it and return to the previous owner? The same here: if some deal is found to have involved a crime it should be declared void.
    That's not really representative of the situation.

    Bribes in some way, shape or form have been present for several decades at least, when it came to WC, and I'm pretty confident one couldn't find a single 100% clean bid in that time.

    I would much rather have such a reform that it stops the richest and/or most powerful nations from influencing the process. No one is talking about such a reform, so it's a moot point for me.

  8. #98
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    That's not really representative of the situation.
    I believe it is. Any wrongdoing must be undone and the situation returned to the state before the wrongdoing occurred.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  9. #99
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Kinda hard to undo the wrongdoing of the hundreds of people who died in Qatar building these stadiums, death is pretty permanent.

  10. #100
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Kinda hard to undo the wrongdoing of the hundreds of people who died in Qatar building these stadiums, death is pretty permanent.
    I mean those wrongdoings which are reversible. If someone stole your phone and then broke it and the police found it, they can't return it to the owner. Well, they can, but you won't be able to use it any more.
    But if some business deal was nailed down illegaly, it should be cancelled.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  11. #101
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrandir View Post
    I mean those wrongdoings which are reversible. If someone stole your phone and then broke it and the police found it, they can't return it to the owner. Well, they can, but you won't be able to use it any more.
    But if some business deal was nailed down illegaly, it should be cancelled.
    That the business-deal was nailed down illegaly seems very likely at this point, a Quatar wistleblower who was involved is ready to speak out. He (apparently) had nothing to do with it himself but seems to comfirm what everybody already suspected. It's a developing story still though. But it should at least be postponed for now, or given to the UK just now. Who wants to play in these tombs anyway?

  12. #102
    Forum Lurker Member Sir Moody's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Kinda hard to undo the wrongdoing of the hundreds of people who died in Qatar building these stadiums, death is pretty permanent.
    Dont read to much into the reports of the deaths - I was shocked at first so I looked into it... guess what its our favourite quote again "Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics".

    Basically the quoted figures are for Qatar as a whole not just the migrants working on the World Cup facilities - and once you factor in the region it is actually relatively low (with only Dubai having a better record).

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  13. #103
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    That the business-deal was nailed down illegaly seems very likely at this point, a Quatar wistleblower who was involved is ready to speak out. He (apparently) had nothing to do with it himself but seems to comfirm what everybody already suspected.
    Perhaps him speaking out is the price he pays for himself being exempt from any personal charges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  14. #104
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Found this one. It is in Spanish, but those who wish can translate it:
    http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2015/06/...54_946096.html
    For those who can't or don't want to in brief - FIFA secretly asked Qatar to be ready to host World Cup in 2018 in case Russia is deprived of it.
    I don't know what reputation AS has as a source, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  15. #105
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    European parliament is also in the game:
    http://1tv.ge/en/news/view/101377.html
    Last edited by Gilrandir; 06-12-2015 at 09:46.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  16. #106
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    I looked a little into Qatar work related deaths, and it seems the situation isn't nearly as bad as it was reported. It's actually business as usual.

    Qatar has a population of 2.2 million. 1.4 million are migrant workers, of which 0.9 million are workers from India and Nepal. There has been 468 deaths in those two groups in 2014, according to embassies of India and Nepal. Since those workers make 60% of total migrant workforce, we can extrapolate that about 830 (give or take a few) migrants workers in total die in Qatar.

    That number includes all worker deaths, ie. literally every employed person who's died, whatever the cause. It doesn't mean work related death, like someone falling from a top of a construction site. That is comparable to UK, according to BBC. More than 50 000 workers die every year in the US, from work related diseases (that's not the total number, that is just for work related diseases, the actual number is surely higher)

    While it is true that Qatar could take care of its migrant workers better, it's not nearly as bad as it was being portrayed. Number of Indian worker deaths every year in India is higher than the the number of Indian worker deaths in Qatar (as a percentage).
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 06-12-2015 at 22:22.

  17. #107
    Member Member Crandar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Nobody cares about the workers. All the fuss happens because some gentlemen are afraid of having limited profits, due to the small (when compared to Brazil) market of Qatar, the fact that the fans/moneybags are not used to winter and that the other goose with the golden eggs, Champions League will suffer some casualties.
    Workers are just the pretext, a successful effort to convince some guillible people that only Qatar is the bad guy, but the real culprit is professional sports.

  18. #108
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  19. #109
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    The angel of peace forwards a nobel prize nominee:
    http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/33684831
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
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  20. #110
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  21. #111

    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    In the Women's World Cup, there was a time when the host country was changed to the previous one. It was for a different reason. There was no corruption involved. If Qatar or Russia or both lose their hosting privileges, then I think Brazil might host. Or maybe South Africa will. There were issues in Brazil such as the protests and the bridge collapse.
    Last edited by Shaka_Khan; 12-23-2015 at 06:51.
    Wooooo!!!

  22. #112
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Blatter/Platini incident is completely unrelated to the WC.

  23. #113
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaka_Khan View Post
    In the Women's World Cup, there was a time when the host country was changed to the previous one. It was for a different reason. There was no corruption involved. If Qatar or Russia or both lose their hosting privileges, then I think Brazil might host. Or maybe South Africa will. There were issues in Brazil such as the protests and the bridge collapse.
    Lets have these assholes in Qatar have it, it least all these workers didn't die for nothing at all. Brazil and South-Africa aren't an option, thousands will be homeless.

  24. #114
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Blatter/Platini incident is completely unrelated to the WC.
    Blatter headed FIFA which is in charge of pronouncing venues for World Cups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

  25. #115
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    I looked a little into Qatar work related deaths, and it seems the situation isn't nearly as bad as it was reported. It's actually business as usual.

    Qatar has a population of 2.2 million. 1.4 million are migrant workers, of which 0.9 million are workers from India and Nepal. There has been 468 deaths in those two groups in 2014, according to embassies of India and Nepal. Since those workers make 60% of total migrant workforce, we can extrapolate that about 830 (give or take a few) migrants workers in total die in Qatar.

    That number includes all worker deaths, ie. literally every employed person who's died, whatever the cause. It doesn't mean work related death, like someone falling from a top of a construction site. That is comparable to UK, according to BBC. More than 50 000 workers die every year in the US, from work related diseases (that's not the total number, that is just for work related diseases, the actual number is surely higher)

    While it is true that Qatar could take care of its migrant workers better, it's not nearly as bad as it was being portrayed. Number of Indian worker deaths every year in India is higher than the the number of Indian worker deaths in Qatar (as a percentage).
    Show me the sources for those numbers.

    Here is the percent for the Qatar values you provided: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...s+a+percentage

    For reference later: 0.059%

    Here is the actual number of US work related deaths: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm

    So the number is not 50,000, it 4,679. And the US the rate is 3.3 per 100,000 workers. Which is 0.0033%.

    There are roughly 140 million workers in the US. The fact that you looked at the number 50,000 deaths and said to yourself, "yeah I can believe that 1 in every 2,820 workers die every year there." says a lot about you.

    Qatar has (0.059/0.0033) or 17.87 times higher death rate than the US.
    Last edited by a completely inoffensive name; 12-25-2015 at 00:00.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

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  26. #116
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Show me the sources for those numbers.

    Here is the percent for the Qatar values you provided: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...s+a+percentage

    For reference later: 0.059%

    Here is the actual number of US work related deaths: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cfoi.nr0.htm

    So the number is not 50,000, it 4,679. And the US the rate is 3.3 per 100,000 workers. Which is 0.0033%.

    There are roughly 140 million workers in the US. The fact that you looked at the number 50,000 deaths and said to yourself, "yeah I can believe that 1 in every 2,820 workers die every year there." says a lot about you.

    Qatar has (0.059/0.0033) or 17.87 times higher death rate than the US.
    It is different statistics - worker deaths in Qatar include all worker deaths, not just those that happened during working hours on the actual job or directly connected with it (transport/commute). So it includes those that fall of a platform on a construction site AND those that go home after work and have a heart attack.

    The figure of 4,679 for US includes ONLY those who died on the actual job or directly related to work. If we count ALL worker deaths in the US, the conservative estimate is 50,000 a year.
    Last edited by Sarmatian; 01-02-2016 at 00:05.

  27. #117
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Most die of dehydration supposedly, how hard can it be to get enough water if so.

  28. #118
    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    It is different statistics - worker deaths in Qatar include all worker deaths, not just those that happened during working hours on the actual job or directly connected with it (transport/commute). So it includes those that fall of a platform on a construction site AND those that go home after work and have a heart attack.

    The figure of 4,679 for US includes ONLY those who died on the actual job or directly related to work. If we count ALL worker deaths in the US, the conservative estimate is 50,000 a year.
    A. Give the source for that 50,000 figure.

    B. The comparison is still garbage because if you are lumping those two figures together, then the numbers are meaningless without knowing the relative distribution of "on the job fatality" over total deaths. If the 50,000 figure is correct, then the US roughly has on the job fatalities as 10% of the total deaths. If the number of on the job deaths for Qatar migrants workers is greater than 83, your point is still wrong. I strongly believe more than 83 migrant workers died on the job in Qatar.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  29. #119
    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    A. Give the source for that 50,000 figure.
    http://www.aflcio.org/content/downlo...Finalnobug.pdf
    B. The comparison is still garbage
    It is, but the point was that the Qatar figure was also garbage. Newspapers were taking all migrant worker deaths in Qatar figure and comparing them with worker deaths solely from work related injuries in other countries.

    The point was - that narrative is bollocks.

  30. #120
    Member Member Gilrandir's Avatar
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    Default Re: The disgusting organization that is FIFA

    Quote Originally Posted by Suraknar View Post
    The article exists for a reason yes, I did not write it...

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