ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://news.yahoo.com/u-woman-hostag...214409079.html

I want to see a successful rescue for a change.

The UAE managed to rescue a British man recently.

Most American and British hostages are murdered because out governments refuse to pay, so unless your family are rich enough to be able to bypass the government you're better off fighting as hard as you can if they try to take you, hope you either get away or they end up shooting you dead because otherwise it's a couple of years on death row and a beheading.

On the other hand, if you're German or French you'll get released after your government pays.

[Husar]

For those who are late to the thread or have just lost overview of the situation:

[AE Bravo]

That British man was rescued in Yemen, he's now in the UAE.

I hate to admit it but I'm fairly certain that the UAE and the kingdom are in a tactical alliance with AQAP. Embarrassingly obvious. There is no way they could've deployed in Aden if this wasn't the case.

[rory_20_uk]

The UAE managed to rescue a British man recently.

Most American and British hostages are murdered because out governments refuse to pay, so unless your family are rich enough to be able to bypass the government you're better off fighting as hard as you can if they try to take you, hope you either get away or they end up shooting you dead because otherwise it's a couple of years on death row and a beheading.

On the other hand, if you're German or French you'll get released after your government pays.

Governments should try to rescue hostages and at the very least mean that there are a lot less of those who were guarding them even if the hostages get killed in the rescue.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Governments should try to rescue hostages and at the very least mean that there are a lot less of those who were guarding them even if the hostages get killed in the rescue.

That is the view of the UK and the US - other countries prefer their people alive.

I suppose it depends on what you want in the world.

[rory_20_uk]

That is the view of the UK and the US - other countries prefer their people alive.

I suppose it depends on what you want in the world.

I would rather that taking hostages is basically a variant of suicide as opposed to opening a bank account.

[Kagemusha]

All these ISIS fellows need is death. Bloody lot of them.

[Husar]

I would rather that taking hostages is basically a variant of suicide as opposed to opening a bank account.

Even if your child were the hostage? Couldn't they pay them and then blow them up? And how do you conduct a raid there with hardly any presence in the area or if they are held in a city full of enemy fighters? What if you end up with more hostages?

[rory_20_uk]

Even if your child were the hostage? Couldn't they pay them and then blow them up? And how do you conduct a raid there with hardly any presence in the area or if they are held in a city full of enemy fighters? What if you end up with more hostages?

Running a society with the rules as if they were your own child is nonsensical. We get this a lot with massively expensive medical treatments that extend life for a month or so - fine if it's your child but ruinous to the whole system.

I doubt that it is easy and sometimes yes it would be impossible. Hostages is always an issue when using any form of armed force that isn't a drone. But it should be the first option to rule out rather than a last resort. Barring fanatics who are doing it for their own internal reasons, those who are doing it to get money to finance their activities would soon look elsewhere.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Even if your child were the hostage? Couldn't they pay them and then blow them up? And how do you conduct a raid there with hardly any presence in the area or if they are held in a city full of enemy fighters? What if you end up with more hostages?

All excellent points.

It comes down to this - pay for the release of your child and the hostage-takers will take five more people because EVERYBODY is someone's child.

Were it my child I'd kill whoever was in my way to get them back because every one I kill is one less hostage-taker, but I wouldn't pay an enable them to take more hostages.

If I refuse to pay and they murder my child I am not responsible - if I pay and they take five more people because of that I AM responsible.

That's not to say I wouldn't scream and curse and cry and gnash my teach and tear the hair from my head - but it's not a difficult choice to make, morally speaking, just a hard one to live with.

[Husar]

So we should basically put boots on the ground as soon as ISIS take a hostage?

I mean if they hold someone somewhere in a big city in the middle of their territory, how are you going to shoot everyone in the way without basically sending the entire army? Or will you just bomb them? They are already getting bombed, so what should be changed then?

And that you would not feel guilty if you did just do nothing about your child having been kidnapped seems a bit optimistic.

And if we're talking about Yemen instead of ISIS, the UAE have deployed their army there, including their Leclerc tanks, o that wouldn't just seem to be a small rescue operation.
IIRC the US tried a big rescue operation on foreign soil once and even the Great Empire couldn't quite make that a huge success.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw

I don't think that would be the kind of operation that discourages further hostage taking so in such situations one may be left with just doing nothing....which is then interpreted as political weakness and lack of decisiveness/action etc.