ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

[GenosseGeneral]

What they did back then was to basically fire the entire civil service of the nation.

If that's not a guaranteed screw-up, nothing is.

It is. "On a daily basis, rule is primarily instituted by the government's bureaucracy." Max Weber

I remember how people liked to draw analogies between Iraq and Nazi Germany becoming a democracy after WW2.
In fact, the elites of 1950s and 1960s Western Germany were to a large percentage Nazis.

[Kralizec]

It is. "On a daily basis, rule is primarily instituted by the government's bureaucracy." Max Weber

I remember how people liked to draw analogies between Iraq and Nazi Germany becoming a democracy after WW2.
In fact, the elites of 1950s and 1960s Western Germany were to a large percentage Nazis.

One of the most surprising things I learned in the past few years (from reading the Spiegel, in this case) was that even in the later days of Adenauer's government it was common practice among politicians and civil servants to call someone they despised a "judenhilfer".

The Soviets were far more thorough with their de-nazification efforts. But then again, political purges were a compulsive habit of theirs. And the ones they did put into power weren't particulary nice people, either.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28042302

Russia sells Iraq jets because the US won't.

Well done guys

*Headdesk*

[Husar]

I'd like to know what model. If you compare the bbc article with this one, you'd think the BBC is a bit late: http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/ir...r-planes-iraq/

That's from the 23rd and says the planes already arrived. The picture is a MiG-21 though, not even a Sukhoi while the BBC has the Su-27, which would be a pretty decent plane for them to get.

According to the video they released they already seem to use russian helicopters (Mi-24/35s). This article states they will get some of the latest russian gunships as well, but shows some Hueys in the picture: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...military.html#



Getting russian equipment may have other reasons as well though, in case they still have some people in the army who are familiar with it, they can get to use it faster now that they're in a hurry. Their country used russian equipment for a long time and US equipment as complicated as airplanes and helicopters would require the crews to adapt to it most likely. Both the pilots as well as the mechanics and so on.

[Sarmatian]

I'd like to know what model. If you compare the bbc article with this one, you'd think the BBC is a bit late: http://www.iraqinews.com/iraq-war/ir...r-planes-iraq/

That's from the 23rd and says the planes already arrived. The picture is a MiG-21 though, not even a Sukhoi while the BBC has the Su-27, which would be a pretty decent plane for them to get.

According to the video they released they already seem to use russian helicopters (Mi-24/35s). This article states they will get some of the latest russian gunships as well, but shows some Hueys in the picture: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/orig...military.html#



Getting russian equipment may have other reasons as well though, in case they still have some people in the army who are familiar with it, they can get to use it faster now that they're in a hurry. Their country used russian equipment for a long time and US equipment as complicated as airplanes and helicopters would require the crews to adapt to it most likely. Both the pilots as well as the mechanics and so on.

We sold them a lot of stuff, too.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No wonder their military fell apart so quickly

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

They're getting 2nd hand crap at emergency rates. Considering what happened to all the humvees and armored vehicles we left them, its probably a good thing we never gave them planes.

I recall the controversy a few years ago about you not wanting to sell them heavy armour, artillery and aircraft - three things the US et al used to maintain their fortified bases. Equipping the Iraqi army as light infantry with a few old APC's and Hummer's isn't a replacement for the US army with it's heavy gear, and it's satellites.

[Pannonian]

I recall the controversy a few years ago about you not wanting to sell them heavy armour, artillery and aircraft - three things the US et al used to maintain their fortified bases. Equipping the Iraqi army as light infantry with a few old APC's and Hummer's isn't a replacement for the US army with it's heavy gear, and it's satellites.

It's (sic) satellites, complete with possessive apostrophe, is correct. It's what the US wants Iraq to be, and probably the main reason for the initial war. And neither Iraq nor Afghanistan have any desire to be that. I'm not sure why you're so upset that Russia i giving Iraq heavy weapons. It's not like they're going to be using them on anyone that we don't want them to.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh, I stand corrected then.

I guess you gave all the good toys to the wrong guys - the Afghans are reputedly made of sterner stuff than the Mesopotamians.

[Pannonian]

I saw a great Army Times article the other day on what sorts of airplanes we're gonna be giving the Afghans Army before we leave, but I can't find it for some reason--I'll keep digging around. The kicker was that the planes they're gonna get still have propellers!

A-rabs work best with camels. Sopwith camels.

[Husar]

There are some COIN aircraft that use propellers. They are fuel efficient, slow and can usually sport a very decent loadout of rocket launchers, machine guns and small bombs. Certainly good enough to engage some dudes on the ground. Not to forget that a 200km/h propeller machine may actually be better suited for such tasks than a jet that can go Mach 2.

The Bronco was such a plane and used by the US well into the 90ies.
Argentina has the Pucara, the article also has a nice picture with the loadout options.
And the USA are even developing a new one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Aircraft_A-67_Dragon

Probably not enough to stop huge tank formations with air cover, but for hunting Taliban in the mountains they should be fine.

[Kadagar_AV]

Gunships are actually quite scary...

And as Husar say, better suited for the task in Afghanistan than any state-of-the-art jets.

Also, jets are only effective with a huge back-up, with advanced logistics and so on... Something Afghanistan lacks anyway.