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Thread: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

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  1. #1
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny View Post
    Coloring?
    The US did create the context.
    The terror prisons did create a core of jihadis and radicalized the population.
    The imposed regime certainly did not act to "win friends and influence people"; it was more narrowly focused than Saddam's old gov't.
    And, finally the West did ignore the terror being perpetrated against the local populations until ISIS went on a land grab.
    All good points he made. He is glossing over the common tendency for all nation-states to pursue their interests somewhat haphazardly in response to shifting public opinion and perceived saliency. He's calling for a consistency that never really happens.

    This doesn't undercut his point, I am just offering a comment.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    I liked the article for its concise summation of the situation.
    The failing it has...like almost all opinion on the matter...is the complete lack of a discussion on the way forward.
    Removal of ISIS is a distraction; it won't "solve Iraq!"; I would like to see something coherent about how to chip the way forward to a solution.
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    For borders to be "solved" in the middle east would require the countries in the middle east to put what the people want in front of their own wants - and that would mean we'd see a couple of new states and Turkey, amongst others, loosing a large amount of land.

    I very much doubt this is going to happen - and external players will only make things worse by becoming hated by everyone.

    Africa is another land mass that needs to redraw borders from the arbitary colonial ones which replaced the arbitary ones that preceeded them.

    ISIS is the latest and nastiest creation from this area. Not the last and as long as the loonies from elsewhere decide to fight (and hopefully die) there they'll not be here.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    The gift that keeps on giving, indeed
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Redrawing borders isn't always going to cut it. Centuries, or even just decades under centralizing states has meant that populations that were once geographically divided are now relatively intermixed. Without resorting to ethnic cleansing, people are going to have to learn to live with each other.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Redrawing borders isn't always going to cut it. Centuries, or even just decades under centralizing states has meant that populations that were once geographically divided are now relatively intermixed. Without resorting to ethnic cleansing, people are going to have to learn to live with each other.
    But indulging in ethnic / religious genocide / mass exodous oes appear to be the preferred approach with several minorities being displaced or culled.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
    Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings.
    "If you can't trust the local kleptocrat whom you installed by force and prop up with billions of annual dollars, who can you trust?" Lemur
    If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute talk with the average voter. Winston Churchill

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    But indulging in ethnic / religious genocide / mass exodous oes appear to be the preferred approach with several minorities being displaced or culled.

    How many years have those minorities lived there without any of that happening?

    Don't make the mistake of assuming that the current state of affairs is the natural state of affairs.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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