ISIS on the offensive in Iraq

[Husar]

Turkey has the second largest standing army in NATO.

Larger than all EU countries together?

Sorry Husar - our army is in a pretty bad way too, our armour has been even more ground down that yours.

If you need to stop the Red Flood may I suggest the Greeks?

I'm sure they're only too happy to help fellow Europeans.

Back when you were serious about defending the Fulda Gap you had over two thousand tanks - now you have a tenth of that.

That was my point, most of these tanks are still in service in EU countries: Spain, Poland, Sweden, Greece...
Add to that the British tanks, the Italian ones, the French Leclercs, the Polish Twardys and you're seriously going to argue that attacking the EU is easier than Turkey? Or did you just forget how we started this argument? We didn't even get to the Air Forces and other assets yet...

Turkey has a massive tank force, yes they have many older tanks but the spearhead are the Leopard II and Leopard I tanks in that order. Russia doesn't have a huge number of modern tanks either, remember, the majority of their tanks are still T-80s.

These T-80s can take on all of these Turkish tanks, especially upgraded T-80s that are more modern than pretty much all the active tanks Turkey has.

Add to that the fact that Anatolia is one of the worst places to invade in the world and you rapidly conclude it's not worth it for the Russians, it would require a general mobalisation and I don't think Russia can afford that financially or domestically.

I never said they're going to invade, I said it's strange how people used to say Putin is coming for Europe and now even Turkey is too much for him...

[Brenus]

That is this strange "schizophrenia": Putin will invade all the world, but Putin can't attack even Georgia as his armies are made of tin foiled tanks/planes/whatever manned by drunken crews...
And they believed both proposals...

[Fisherking]

This article on the situation in Turkey is actually being rather kind to Erdogan. They speak of smuggled oil from ISIS and don’t bring up Erdogan’s son, who seems involved with it and is the Turkish equivalent of a Mafia Don.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-BURLEIGH.html
It tells us the Turkish Army is around 500,000 strong.

Yesterday, I here of two prominent Turkish Journalists were arrested, charged with espionage, and helping a terror organisation, (a US based opposition group to Erdogan) when in fact what they did was expose government cooperation and aid to ISIS.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/two...&NewsCatID=339

[Greyblades]

That is this strange "schizophrenia": Putin will invade all the world, but Putin can't attack even Georgia as his armies are made of tin foiled tanks/planes/whatever manned by drunken crews...
And they believed both proposals...

Eh. Either russia would fail to beat the turkish army or they win but end up in another afghanistan.

[Gilrandir]

That is this strange "schizophrenia": Putin will invade all the world, but Putin can't attack even Georgia as his armies are made of tin foiled tanks/planes/whatever manned by drunken crews...
And they believed both proposals...

If you mean my comment, then you again misread it. I said of zero likelihood for Russians TO BE LET THROUGH Georgia. I don't doubt Russia can FIGHT ITS WAY through Georgia and win. But it will mean fighting one enemy to create a landbridge to fight another. Too much fighting OPENLY. Putin will do things in his favorite surreptitious mean way. Perhaps we will soon hear of oppressed Armenians, their Orthodox brethren, living amid bloodthirsty Nazi Turks and calling on Putin the Deliverer to free them from the yoke.

[Husar]

If you mean my comment, then you again misread it.

At least as far as I'm concerned, these arguments come more from the direction of our two resident doomsday posters who can't wait to die in a glorious explosion in WW3, PFFF and ICPFFF (obviously I don't want to spell either ).

[Brenus]

"If you mean my comment, then you again misread it" Nope, wasn't yours. A bit like Husar, but not really aimed at someone in particular... But you probably remember some comments about Russian being drunk and their armies crap. And as well some comments Russia was massing troops at the borders reading to take Berlin...
"First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin"
https://youtu.be/JTTC_fD598A

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That was my point, most of these tanks are still in service in EU countries: Spain, Poland, Sweden, Greece...
Add to that the British tanks, the Italian ones, the French Leclercs, the Polish Twardys and you're seriously going to argue that attacking the EU is easier than Turkey? Or did you just forget how we started this argument? We didn't even get to the Air Forces and other assets yet...

Tanks in Greece do you no good if Russia invades Germany - by the time you can transfer the tanks between fronts the Russians are through the Gap. By contrast Turkey has 3,000 tanks in Anatolia.

These T-80s can take on all of these Turkish tanks, especially upgraded T-80s that are more modern than pretty much all the active tanks Turkey has.

If Russia deployed all it's T-80 tanks it could probably beat Turkey, but that means stripping a lot of its garrisons and Russia is unlike to do that. Like the Turks Russia would be likely to use a mix of older and newer tanks. Turks are reputed to be good tankmen and if you're invading Anatolia it can be hell on Earth, like Russia itself.

I never said they're going to invade, I said it's strange how people used to say Putin is coming for Europe and now even Turkey is too much for him...

The amount of armour in German is between 1/4 and 1/5 of what's in Germany including all German, British and American formations. the German army has recieved a reputation in recent years for being demoralised and overweight, while the UK army today has very low morale due to constant cutting of men and fun stuff like tanks.

Even so, nobody was saying that Putin would invade NATO/the EU but that we would struggle to stop him from annexing parts of EU countries because of our unwilingness to fight. You don't want to fight - you've openly said that in the event of war you'll run away and hide.

Me, I know I'm of draftable age and if the proverbial hits the air circulation mechanism I'm going to end up in the Green. So I'd prefer SigInt or failing that Artillery because I might actually be not-terrible at those.

I don't want to fight, thanks, but I'm perfectly willing to if required.

[Husar]

Tanks in Greece do you no good if Russia invades Germany - by the time you can transfer the tanks between fronts the Russians are through the Gap. By contrast Turkey has 3,000 tanks in Anatolia.

Germany and Greece are not the only countries in the EU.

If Russia deployed all it's T-80 tanks it could probably beat Turkey, but that means stripping a lot of its garrisons and Russia is unlike to do that. Like the Turks Russia would be likely to use a mix of older and newer tanks. Turks are reputed to be good tankmen and if you're invading Anatolia it can be hell on Earth, like Russia itself.

Good for them.

The amount of armour in German is between 1/4 and 1/5 of what's in Germany including all German, British and American formations.

¿Qué?

the German army has recieved a reputation in recent years for being demoralised and overweight, while the UK army today has very low morale due to constant cutting of men and fun stuff like tanks.

And the Russians are all drunk, so I guess we're even.

Even so, nobody was saying that Putin would invade NATO/the EU but that we would struggle to stop him from annexing parts of EU countries because of our unwilingness to fight.

I'm pretty sure that you or someone else talked about that it may be better to strike against Russia now before Putin comes or something like that back in the Ukraine thread.

You don't want to fight - you've openly said that in the event of war you'll run away and hide.

Yes, it depends on the circumstances as well, but especially if it is a war over something I consider a stupid political event where "my side" may even be to blame for the escalation.

I don't want to fight, thanks, but I'm perfectly willing to if required.

Define "required" in this context.

[Brenus]

"Germany and Greece are not the only countries in the EU." Is it not the Greece made of overpaid lazy greedy tax dodgers we speak about here? The one who should have been expel from EU?
Well, apparently the French, Spanish, Italian and others are not in Europe, or perhaps not considered as forces...

[Crandar]

Breaking news.

Fateh Halab (Conquest of Aleppo) is a member of the Free Syrian Army, an organisation with a media-friendly name that conquers cities very moderately. They are also allies of the West and today they claimed that , after heroic and intense fighting, they manage to... conquer the villages of Kashtar and Taneb. From whom?

Not from the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant.

Not from the Syrian Army.

Not from Al-Qaeda.

Not from the Lebanese, the Iranians, the Israelis or the Turks.

From the Kurds? Well, not exactly.

They captured them from the equally moderate Syrian Democratic Forces, a new moderate coalition between Arabs and Kurds, an ally of the West, with the task of liberating Syria and giving the media a new catchy name, to replace the exhausted FSA.

So, whom are we supposed to attack and whom to arm? The Free or the Democratic guys? Who are the terrorists and who the partisans, for god's sake?!

[CrossLOPER]

So, whom are we supposed to attack and whom to arm? The Free or the Democratic guys? Who are the terrorists and who the partisans, for god's sake?!

The freedomest ones.

[Gilrandir]

If Russia deployed all it's T-80 tanks it could probably beat Turkey, but that means stripping a lot of its garrisons and Russia is unlike to do that.

The key word here is "if". It doesn't explain HOW Russians are going to get their tanks in contacts with the Turks.