Archers with Phalanx

[Vincent Butler]

Does anybody have any tips on using archers with a phalanx, historic use or otherwise? I have found the phalanx to most effective used offensively instead of defensively, e.g., ordering them to attack the enemy instead of waiting for the enemy to throw themselves onto my spears (though that works as well). With an offensive use of the phalanx, archers seem to be just a liability. I have the skirmisher use down, is the archer use the same thing?

[ReluctantSamurai]

See this discussion:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ck-of-hoplites

Cliff Notes....yes, you skirmish them to death, and other than Sacred Band, Spartans, or Armored Hoplites, you can win easier than you might think.

With horse archers...meh.....it's like taking candy from a baby

[Vincent Butler]

That thread seemed to be on attacking phalanx with archers, unless I missed something. I am talking about my own archers with my own phalanx. It is especially bad with Macedon and Seleucia, their standard archers have poor range, so by the time the enemy is in range my phalanx is engaging them. Horse Archers would be better, they could move behind my phalanx and shoot while they are moving, but I try not to use a lot of units I can't retrain on a campaign. Neither Macedon nor Seleucia can train archer cav, unless you count Seleucia's elephants. Again, training is an issue, this time by location. True, with archers, and especially HAs, ideally they are not touched, but I have been distracted too many times and had enemy units hit my archers and decimate them. Armoured Elephants would work there again-hmm…and then bring them into play when I need them. Nobody really could do them too much damage even when I am distracted. But the realism comes into play as well. And just how realistic are Armoured Elephants? I don't like skirmish mode, the units make stupid movements on it or wait too long to run.

[BroskiDerpman]

If enemy is going to engage and you still want to fire with foot archers you could just keep on running away or using cavalry to harass in order to buy more time.

Usually I just have archers keep firing and send my phalanx unit forward to engage, the I have the archers provide supporting fire. I don't really care about friendly fire in this case when it is minimal compared to the amount of casualties you can cause to the enemy.

[ReluctantSamurai]

I am talking about my own archers with my own phalanx.

My bad...

I use archers and pike in R1 much the same way as Shogun....archers in front. If the enemy won't engage, you keep shooting. If cavalry gives chase, you retreat them behind the phalanx. Rinse and repeat until you are out of arrows. Then send in the pike...

I don't really care about friendly fire in this case when it is minimal compared to the amount of casualties you can cause to the enemy.

That might be true with low level vanilla archers, and heavily armored pike. Try that with high-level Cretans, or Chosen Archers, and you can kiss half your phalanx unit goodbye Can't even count the number of times my archers shot my own troops in the back (ie. that all-too-familiar red-red-red blinking of a front line unit that just got hosed) until I learned to put the archers in front and then retreat behind the infantry.

.....and did you audition for the Longshanks role in Braveheart? I sure as hell wouldn't want to be an elite pikeman in your army.....

[Ludens]

ETA: never mind - wrong forum.