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Thread: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

  1. #1

    Default New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    My nickname on Twcenter is : Invicta (for anyone how might know me there)
    Please read carefully

    I'm starting a new HS using SS 6.4 mod. It'll be a skip a few mod (which means some turns-likely about 60 turns- will be played with the AI
    leading all the factions). A few changes will be made at the begin of teh 1st turn, to ensure that some factions won't disappear and to get a more balanced setup (I'll publish those changes later, but most noyably mongols stacks will be reduced, KoJ will get 1-2 elite stacks to not die, Byzantines will get the same too as also HRE might get some help -i need to check that before giving final instructions to the admin of this HS-)
    I'll be the manager of the HS, which means my authority is above everyone else concerning the HS.
    This means in practical terms that I'll decide who will be the admin (I won't be admin and I won't ever hold the admin password,
    but on the other hand I'll decide who'll keep the admin password).
    I'll appoint an external admin who'll take decisions about rule-breaking and assign appropriate punishments (I won't take part in the decisions. Also I'll likely appoint 1 or 2 players to be co-admin: they won't take any part in deciding punishment or checking turns.
    They'll just help the main admin, by posting periodical map, resetting password and skipping turns when needed.
    of the admin in any way, and he'll act independently. Everyone including me, must accept his decisions. On the other hand before the HS
    starts I'll give some indication to the admin about how to act. In particular, whenever someone breaks a rule, the admin must make sure that the player who broke it, should not only not profit form it but also be assigned a proper punishment. Whether breaking the rule was voluntarily done or not, players needs to accept it as if they made a mistake -i.e like putting their own army in the wrong position-. A milder punishments might be given to factions on the brick-or close to- of destruction. This is because sometimes, players play lightly-some time purposely- when their faction is about to day. So this is done to not let players to take advantage of this).
    Now the most important part: the HS will have a turn every 3 days (first cycle Mon-Wed and second Thurs-Sat).
    You'll choose a day and a windows timeframe. For instance if you're generally available to play between 5-8pm on Monday, and you'll have your second turn on Thursday.
    Or else play between 5-8pm on Wednesday and Saturday.
    This way you'll know in advance when you'll have to play, as also being that you chose the timeframe, you'll have to play when it most suits you.
    This way we'll have a moderately fast HS (2 turns per week, that's why the real deal). To that end you'll need to understand that why reloading is allowed, still it's not an excuse to delay your turn.
    If you have only 10 minutes that day , you'll be asked to play in 10 minutes.
    Ideally players should not spend more than 30 minutes on their turns (which should make HS more unpredictable and funnier). If you take longer, it's your choice but you have no excuse to delay
    the submission of your turn (if you really can't play you should notify at least 24 hours before your turn is due and ask to be subbed).
    As also remember that focus of the HS is not winning, but enjoying it. So you'd be expected to play up to very end of your faction (that's why hard to die)

    Now please read carefully.
    Among the new rules, I might introduce a new rule called the : "decisive battle"
    Basically during a war, when a smaller faction is getting bashed by a bigger one, it can call the "decisive battle".
    This will be played on online multiplayer (we might set up a room inside some vpn , you don't need to worry about that as I'll set it for you and it'll be easy to join). Basically the loser will have this way the chance to revert the outcome of the war.
    The losing part will be assigned less money (so he'll have less chances to win)than the winning part (i.e 8k for the losing side and 12k for the winning side). So the losing side we'll have less chances to win, but if he win, peace will be enforced (10 turns likely) and he'll get back at least one or 2 regions of his choice (to be defined).
    This will add not only unpredictability (as even big empire won't be sure to crash small ones until the very end).
    But it will also bring more advantages:
    1-Players will keep motivated longer, since even when they're losing teh war, they still hold chances to revert the balance (even if not completely).
    2-Until now, players with "reloading skills" and more time to play, have got a considerable advantage in HS. This rule, being the battle played in real time, will give more advantage to the ones who actually can really play a battle without using any sort of cheats.
    3-More balance: players always choose bigger factions to get more chances to win. Now even with small factions you'll get your own good chance. But that's not the end: some factions have good units for playing battles which are not so good in AR. With this rule those factions are less at disadvantage.


    Depending on how many players will take part in it, I'll define the map borders.
    We might take up to 15 players maximum (and still 2 turns per week will be played, do not worry about that).

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  2. #2

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Assignment of the factions: how the system will work.

    To keep the HS balanced, I'll divide the map (depending first on how many players will join) in several block.
    For instance:
    Block 1: England-Scotland
    Block 2: Norway-Denmark
    Block 3: HRE-Poland
    Block 4: France-Aragon
    Block 5: Portugal-Castille
    Block 6: Moors-Sicily
    Block 7: Venice-Genoa
    Block 8: Hungary -ERE
    Block 9: TO-Lihuania
    Block 10:Koj- Fatmids
    Block 11: Turks-Kwarezm
    Block 12: Novgorod-Kiev
    Block 13: Mongols

    This is an example. But lets say you choose block 4 (France- Aragon), then when the admin will have produced the save, he'll post the save with all factions pswd unlocked. Everyone can check everything. And you can choose among Aragon and France which faction to take
    (depending on your preferences, it might not be necessarily the faction in the best condition, but it'll be your choice).

  3. #3
    Butcher of Blaviken Member Jiub's Avatar
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    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    I'm in ;)
    Will further comment on the details tonight when I have the time to spare.

  4. #4

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    I would like to join too :).I am presuming this will be a Late Era HS?
    Also do we already choose our blocks or do we wait to see how many join?

  5. #5

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Luka View Post
    I would like to join too :).I am presuming this will be a Late Era HS?
    Also do we already choose our blocks or do we wait to see how many join?
    Yes late ERA (it's the most balanced ).
    To define the blocks I need to know exactly how many players want to join (division will be made based on that).

  6. #6

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    I had in mind moving the hs here but simply forgot to mention. Have a lot on my mind these days.

    Also, i like the decisive battle idea.
    I can play preferably Mon-Friday from 4 PM - 7PM, GMT +3.

    TWC ACC: tavix

  7. #7

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Yes, I'm in :D

  8. #8

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    I m here !!

  9. #9

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Excellent, Riverknight will also join.

    I'm modding the campaign script and the descr.strat to give to the future admin to create the skip a few save.
    Once I define all the changes I'll post them here along with the 2 files.

  10. #10

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    so just 7?? i guess if we wait just a little bit we will have 2 more.

    anyway i m still not decided how and when i have free time.. yeah ok i will do that later. just dot rush things up!

  11. #11
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    It sounds interesting. Welcome to the Throne Room Invicta. I do know you, you're hailed as one of the better players over at the TWC. We had an argument about the way autocalc works for SS (as I didn't know they changed it so much compared to vanilla) back in the day.

    Cheating on the .org is not tolerated. We aim for fair play. The administrator of a hotseat game can force a replaying of a turn, but anything that needs more strict enforcement (like the punishments you are mentioning) will probably need to be handled by myself or Nightbringer and we will talk with the player in question. Repeated offenses will be punished on a moderator level (not game admin level), and if the cheating is severe then an outright ban from this subsection will follow, as I have done on several occasions already in my time as a mod.

    I like your ideas about the game. I would like to see @SilverShield join this, he will give you one hell of a fight. I am not up for these strict play times however - my schedule does not permit it. I also doubt my ability to free up time when it is convenient for the other party as well for a MP game, though I do like the sound of it and it will give factions like Portugal a fighting chance.

    Why aren't you up for being the admin? Or do you wish to play in the game as well? Also, what do admins over at the TWC usually do apart from pw resets, skipping, punishments, checking for cheating etc?
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  12. #12

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Why aren't you up for being the admin? Or do you wish to play in the game as well? Also, what do admins over at the TWC usually do apart from pw resets, skipping, punishments, checking for cheating etc?
    I'm playing, so I don't want to have the admin pswd.
    Also the way I manage the HS, it's a lot of work (I fill the opening posts of the HS with map updates, a section for public diplomatic deals continuously update as also a "history of wars" section).

    About the admins: well they do what you say mostly, although in my HS, depending on the availability of the external admin, he may issue a set of mission and rewards to make the game more interesting. Also he may issue secret objective for the campaign to be fulfilled in order to win. In one of my HS, Jiub as admin did a fantastic job in that regard (we needed to hold 3 city and destroy a certain secret faction to win plus another condition which I do not recall).

    About cheating: there'll be little chance of cheating(due to the way things are set up)
    In any case, I think you might be a bit confused by the fact that you have -normally at least- much fewer rules to respect. In TWC HS, there's a lot of rules to respect (some of which might be easy to break without any will to do that intentionally, particularly when you play more than one HS with different set of rules). Sometimes it's hard to tell if players break those rules intentionally or not.
    So in any case the admin of the HS will make sure that no one profit from breaking the rules,whether this is done intentionally or not.
    If you want to get a better idea of what I'm saying you can have a look at this thread:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Championship)
    If you take a quick look at the rules you can see how many they are.
    Last edited by sonnet; 06-16-2014 at 19:21.

  13. #13

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by yuonyuon View Post
    so just 7?? i guess if we wait just a little bit we will have 2 more.

    anyway i m still not decided how and when i have free time.. yeah ok i will do that later. just dot rush things up!
    Don't worry I just started inviting people few hours ago. Lets give it a day or 2.

  14. #14
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    3,921

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Well I would really love to have a battle with some good TWC players in a SS Late Eara game. But I'd also like to help you admin it. I'll volunteer for now, being the host and a moderator and all. To get the first (non Westeros) HS going. For later games, perhaps I can play as well.

    As for specific VCs, we have quite a number of such games here. One is the active Clash of Gods series (you can see the thread here on the top of the posts in the TR), where we pit Catholics vs. Muslims and we vie for control over certain key settlements. The other one is my own idea Vikingetid, which is very specific but did not start due to an inconsistent player base.

    So then, since you have more experience with autoresolve battles in SS, how are unit types ranked by performance in a HS? My experience shows that certain archer and cav troops perform very well, certain infantry suck etc. but the rules are not as set in stone as in regular M2 or Kingdoms, where the biggest, most heavily armoured and conditioned troops win in autocalc.

    Also, regarding your contested battles idea for this game, you must set up some MP rules beforehand. Otherwise someone will just spam horse archers and a non HA faction will be cleaned . Same with heavy cav like Scholarii.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  15. #15

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Actually i really have some requests in order to simplify things in this HS:

    1 only autoresolve
    2 all AI factions turn to rebels
    3 no pope and mongols

    i m guessing you really know what was the big deal , you can become a superpower with a diplomat in no time.

  16. #16

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by yuonyuon View Post
    Actually i really have some requests in order to simplify things in this HS:

    1 only autoresolve
    2 all AI factions turn to rebels
    3 no pope and mongols

    i m guessing you really know what was the big deal , you can become a superpower with a diplomat in no time.
    Hello yuonyuon. I think I like the idea of this HS. I want to sign up.

    One more thing, maybe turning ALL a.i factions to rebel may not be a good idea? if they are outside the map's zone(if any), then it makes sense. But some factions can be surrounded by nothing but weak rebels and that will be a power vacuum. You'll have superpowers growing unopposed while some other factions has 2 or 3 human factions as neighbors.

    How about keeping the choice of who becomes rebel until later, like keeping an a.i faction for each block member to give him a challenge.
    Last edited by Auran; 06-16-2014 at 22:14.

  17. #17

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by Auran View Post
    Hello yuonyuon. I think I like the idea of this HS. I want to sign up.

    One more thing, maybe turning ALL a.i factions to rebel may not be a good idea? if they are outside the map's zone(if any), then it makes sense. But some factions can be surrounded by nothing but weak rebels and that will be a power vacuum. You'll have superpowers growing unopposed while some other factions has 2 or 3 human factions as neighbors.

    How about keeping the choice of who becomes rebel until later, like keeping an a.i faction for each block member to give him a challenge.
    i guess if there will be auto-resolve ,it will be a challenge but still it is a skip a few so really don t matter , i just hate those guys that get rich with one diplomat , i mean you can get up to 10 000 from AI because is really stupid and this will be a HS so we don t need AI for a challenge . again it just my opinion .

    And let s not forget that there is no such thing as balanced campaign , that s why we have to use diplomacy . and diplomacy is the best part especially when we have good players around

  18. #18

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by yuonyuon View Post
    Actually i really have some requests in order to simplify things in this HS:

    1 only autoresolve
    2 all AI factions turn to rebels
    3 no pope and mongols

    i m guessing you really know what was the big deal , you can become a superpower with a diplomat in no time.
    1-Yes it will be auto-resolve only
    2&3: do not worry about the Mongols. They'll be made balanced by removing the reinforcement script in the campaign script.
    I'm already testing it as we speak, and without reinforcements they're pretty weak actually even if they started with 6 good armies.
    Pope won't be eliminated as I intend to keep crusades/jihads. As you know, they play limited role (1 crusade/jihad army per faction max, and orthodox/pagans can't be attacked) in the HS I manage, but still is a nice option to have for the player as also something to worry about.
    About the diplomat, you need to be more specific, but in general I'll put as a rule that player can't get money/land from the AI factions (but player can give money/land to them under certain conditions) and deals made with the AI must be posted and made public to avoid any trouble.


    @Thanks Myth, I'll keep you posted in teh next few days.

  19. #19

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Vipman and Legourou should join us too.

    Ok I changed a bit the campaign script and the descr.strat file (assuming you have SS set on : late era, with only option savage ai and disable real recruitment enabled).
    Most notably I gave about 30-35 units of Templar Guards to KoJ. This way KoJ manages (at least in the 2 trials run I made ) to keep about its own settlements in the first 50-60 turns.
    Byzantium also keep up and in one of my trial became a powerhouse.
    Castille and Aragon got 3-4 special units too.
    Mongols do not get reinforcements any more.
    Pope has got his army weakened and some building in Rome cancelled to slow it down. Otherwise there's a serious risk it becomes a powerhouse.

    Here's the link to the save you might want to try with those change and see if you get a balanced map after 60 turns (all you need to do is to load it and it'll run by itself, keep autosave enabled in your settings as, at least to me , the game crashes from time to time. This way if it crashes you can reload from the last autosave):
    https://www.mediafire.com/?qq7vumai4d9u8c9

    And here are the files I modded:
    https://www.mediafire.com/?pnt4h7g8tbd7h43
    Basically you can obtain the save I posted above by simply overwriting the 2 files in the .zip archive in the "c/Program Files/SEGA/Medieval II Total War/mods/SS6.3/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign"
    then load Stainless steel (the game needs to be quit when you overwrite the files), select every faction to human (console disabled-this is just a trial,the real save will be made by the admin- and difficulty vh/vh).
    Then on venice turn, just turn every faction to ai, including venice and press the button start.

    If you're gonna run a trial, when you get to turn 60, make a save and post it here.
    If nothing go strange (like a faction getting too powerful) we can use those settings to make the real save.
    Last edited by sonnet; 06-17-2014 at 17:57.

  20. #20
    Butcher of Blaviken Member Jiub's Avatar
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    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Ok, so I haven't really much to add right now, things look ok.
    I'll only post to leave you with my time-frame which is Wednesday and Saturday from 12:00 to 18:00 (+2 timezone Bucharest RO)
    too much 6 hours ? or is it ok ?

  21. #21
    Not Andres Member Makrell's Avatar
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    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Ill join, i can play only in evenings GMT+1. I have a strict scedual, and that scedual will switch in August BTW.

    If i can ask i would prefer an eastern area, unless this is all map. East is more interesting and less used IMO

  22. #22

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Can we make a Thread with some players list and absence notice in case something happening . will be great to have a list of reliable players also we can put some tags : average or pro so we can figure out what we are doing , once this HS will start then it s hard to fix some issues .

    another think next week i will be off all week , i hope i can get a spot until then .. after that i will be available every day after 18:00 same GM as Jiub

  23. #23

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Im IN!

  24. #24

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Well during the summer I'll certainly have more time, but when school starts again and this would get up to turn 30 (if 2 turns per week) my schedule will vary a lot, often with some full days and I can only guarantee that in such days I can play between 9PM - 12AM, 7PM - 10PM UK time.

  25. #25

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by ebs View Post
    Im IN!
    you must be joking , you can t play in current Hotseats and you want more . i m out of ideas.

  26. #26

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    I have this feeling that schedule will get hard to respect by some players if all which applied until now will join... And hopefully there will be enough that are able to play in the non-evening time of the day.

  27. #27

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Count me in :) I'm on my very loooooong holiday.
    Suggestion
    - Skip it longer. I prefer gunpowder !
    - NO Sacking or Exterminating settlement, please.
    - I prefer "permanent watch towers"
    - I prefer "reloading". So, everyone can make their best move. ( I mean you can only redo your unimportant stupid move. No reloading assassins, re-fight the battle or reload when you face an ambush etc.)

    I one who was absence because my comp problems. I very very sorry about that. I hope it will never happen again.

  28. #28

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    This is Legourou here.

    I will play.

    I like Block 1 and I have a very flexible time schedule, but at the same time it can be rigid. For instance: tomorrow I will be gone for an uncertain amount of days (2-8 days).

  29. #29
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    Quote Originally Posted by Core-i7-inside View Post
    Count me in :) I'm on my very loooooong holiday.
    Suggestion
    - Skip it longer. I prefer gunpowder !
    - NO Sacking or Exterminating settlement, please.
    - I prefer "permanent watch towers"
    - I prefer "reloading". So, everyone can make their best move. ( I mean you can only redo your unimportant stupid move. No reloading assassins, re-fight the battle or reload when you face an ambush etc.)

    I one who was absence because my comp problems. I very very sorry about that. I hope it will never happen again.
    Sacking is a major way for those who don't own 30 settlements to be able to field competetive armies.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  30. #30

    Default Re: New SS 6.4 HS: preparations thread (2 turns per week)

    After long meditation, and time spent trying to remember how to write some English... I decided to join!
    Thank you for the invite!!!

    For details I'll have to check things out!

    PS
    I got to ... get ... all the games ready, so I hope this will not start before next week. :D
    Last edited by Tonno; 06-18-2014 at 09:50.

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