Bethlehem Christian farmer holds out against settlers and the IDF

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Because, jews.

It's rather hilarious that some people believe that people who have been in the country for a century counts as 'foreign'. The majority of the Swedish jewry(excluding some recent arrivals) are as Swedish as anyone else. And like all other Swedes, they are mostly secular and non-religious. For most, the only association to Judaism is a grandpa with a holocaust story and some slight alterations to holidays.

I'm going to take a punt at this, just for fun.

What's odd about Swedish Jews?

How about that they're still recognised as Jews, even if non-religious?

Ed Milliband makes a lot of being Jewish, despite being an Atheist, and has said that if he wins the election he will be Britain's "first Jewish Prime Minister". This begs the question of why Disraeli wasn't Britain's first Jewish Prime Minister - he was a Christian and Milliband is an Atheist.

So what gives?

I personally think that what gives is that Jewish identity is more robust than pretty much ANYTHING else, that's why Jews get persecuted throughout history - they refuse to stop being Jewish. Now - if you consider that from a political standpoint, given that Jews everywhere insist on being Jews (which is fine) then you can see why they might be perceived to have divided loyalties.

Bear in mind that, historically, the same was thought of Catholics - but Catholics have mellowed a lot since JFk. Roma would be another example of the phenomenon (and it's still popular to hate them).

[HoreTore]

I'm going to take a punt at this, just for fun.

What's odd about Swedish Jews?

How about that they're still recognised as Jews, even if non-religious?

Ed Milliband makes a lot of being Jewish, despite being an Atheist, and has said that if he wins the election he will be Britain's "first Jewish Prime Minister". This begs the question of why Disraeli wasn't Britain's first Jewish Prime Minister - he was a Christian and Milliband is an Atheist.

So what gives?

I personally think that what gives is that Jewish identity is more robust than pretty much ANYTHING else, that's why Jews get persecuted throughout history - they refuse to stop being Jewish. Now - if you consider that from a political standpoint, given that Jews everywhere insist on being Jews (which is fine) then you can see why they might be perceived to have divided loyalties.

Bear in mind that, historically, the same was thought of Catholics - but Catholics have mellowed a lot since JFk. Roma would be another example of the phenomenon (and it's still popular to hate them).

Jews insist on being Jewish...? They are more visible than others?

I'm sorry, but a claim like that needs more backing than an anecdote about Milliband.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Jews insist on being Jewish...? They are more visible than others?

I'm sorry, but a claim like that needs more backing than an anecdote about Milliband.

Well, "Insist" is the wrong word, but it's hard to articulate.

If you want more evidence, I refer you to the last two millennia.

[HoreTore]

Well, "Insist" is the wrong word, but it's hard to articulate.

If you want more evidence, I refer you to the last two millennia.

It hardly explains why the Swedish Jews are anything other than normal Swedes.

Well, except for being banned from entry until a century or so ago, that is.

Edit: as for the concept of "jewish control", have some Alan Dershowitz.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It hardly explains why the Swedish Jews are anything other than normal Swedes.

Well, except for being banned from entry until a century or so ago, that is.

Because there shouldn't be any Jews left anywhere, like there are no worshippers of Odin (yeah, those nancies don't count).

Judaism is - odd.

[HoreTore]

Because there shouldn't be any Jews left anywhere, like there are no worshippers of Odin (yeah, those nancies don't count).

Judaism is - odd.

What specific behaviour does this cause in the average swedish jew today?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Actually, vis-a-vis the time honored belief in some mystical Jewish cabal controlling things behind the scenes and manipulating us all like puppets....

Wouldn't they have been smart enough and connected enough to set up Israel to have a government that was at least a bit more efficient and less malfed up than Italy for example....

just sayin'....

[Ironside]

I'm going to take a punt at this, just for fun.

What's odd about Swedish Jews?

How about that they're still recognised as Jews, even if non-religious?

For the average person they aren't known to be Jews.

To find them, you have to specifically search if they're Jews and that boils down to having Jewish ancestry.

They don't have a say in the matter, it's their opponents or "proponents" (aka people that drags out any famous people with Jewish connections to show that the Jews are great).

It's basically the one-drop rule. Anyone here having Swedish ancestors? I'll be here insisting that your grandchildren should be classified as Swedes because of that.

[Don Corleone]

Just read through this entire thread. Interesting read.

The question of identity politics, Jewish or otherwise, is a vast one. Entire departments spring up at universities to study each and every facet for each and every identity.

One common theme that comes out of LGBT/Jewish/African-American/Latin/Muslim/Native American/you-name it is the very phenomenon I just saw portrayed in 3 pages.....

Pluralism brings out the nascent bully in the best of us. On the one hand, we exclude the 'other', and demand that any attempts on their part to join the homogenous majority are evidence of their "sneakiness" and "craftiness" and proof positive of their insidious means to subjugate the glorious majority, culturally or otherwise.

Thus rejected, said minorities seek to establish a group identity of their own as the chaff among the wheat. And the pluralistic majority again turns their disparaging eye to said minority and claims that the minority is willfully and rebelliously maintaining their identity, evidence of what? You guessed it, yet again, evidence of their "sneakiness", their "craftiness' and proof positive of their insidious means to subjugate the glorious majority, culturally or otherwise.

It's a case of damned if they do, damned if they don't, no?

I think we have to be careful throwing the insult "racist" around, as I haven't heard anyone advocating for a system of suppression. But I do think the lack of self-awareness by some very intelligent folks here is astonishing.

Back to the original topic, well played Idaho, nice dynamic to introduce. It's unfortunate that such cases exist. I can offer no reasonable explanation at first glance. Muslim or Christian, Israel's identity politics are particularly tricky. I do business there and have visited several times. A good Israeli friend of mine has asked me on more than one occassion if I'd ever consider moving there. Painfully, I had to hurt my friend by telling him the truth "No, I am not ethnically Jewish. The only way my family could enjoy equal protection under the law would be to become religously Jewish, something we are unwilling to do (though I do gratefully accept what the Jews have brought to the collective human spiritual experience).

I'm not certain why Israel gets singled out on these though. Few are the nations that allow for unfettered ownership of private property, let alone public goods by entities they perceive as not part of the self-identified nation state.