State of the Game

[Slaists]

It's not exactly out of nowhere. Every faction gets 3000/turn (consider it resistance donations by the nobles resenting your occupation) even if the faction has no taxable regions left (some turns after a faction has lost their last settlement they starve to death though). That merc army I saw appeared a few turns after I had defeated the faction's last visible stack. 3 turns x 3000 = 9,000: quite enough to hire a merc army.

[Sp4]

Does the player get that too? I never ran out of regions.

And why don't people start injecting me with ridiculous amount of money when I do lose any region? I assume people live there and wealthy people would want to see it return to me? =p

[Slaists]

You get your base 3000 (or 2,500 as a player) income the same as the AI factions. This is independent of whether you own any territory or not. So, when your territory count goes to zero, you still get that base income as long as you have troops remaining.

I personally have not been in that situation, but someone who got wiped off the map by the AI reported this; getting the base income after losing the last territory. Once his remaining troops starved to death, he lost the game.

[Sp4]

I had my first siege battle that was worth playing today. For some reason a sudden slave rebellion in Sardinia (on Sardinia?) spawned a stack of pretty elite Carthagenian troops but whatever. I was just happy to see the siege in effect for the first time. The AI managed to make it to my walls, this time with all 4 ladders and not using torches to burn down the gates, which was interesting.

They also managed to put pike infantry in pike formation on a ladder, which killed 2 Hastati before I managed to dogpile enough things on them for them to die:



Once my defenders had killed all melee infantry, the rest of their army didn't dismount and start using torches... instead they did what ones army does automatically in TW games of old. It automatically retreats

So yeah, this was a positive experience :D (Game is vanilla, all mods are visual)

[Myth]

I have a positive experience too. I daresay i'm getting creamed by the AI if I do even a signle missplay as Macedon. I'm restrating yet again. It's hard to get a steamroll-y stack with only major settlements. I hate upgrading the barracks in a major city when I have to tear it down later, but it just might be necessary. The Thracians have good units. In fact, their skirmishers are so beastly they shred companion cav so long as they can send a volley or two. Charge and retreat with one unit of cav won't work versus 4 units of thracian spearchuckers.

Even when I take out Tylis and occupy Anthea, unless I did so with overwhelming odds (meaning, i take out t heir navy separately AND bait out some armies outside the city) then the Odryssians will just come down and ram me hard.

If I go by way of peace with Tylis and agresson with Epirus (which makes much more sense strategically) I get down to untrustworthy rep. Life is hard, so restoring Alexander's empire will be that much sweeter.

[Slaists]

Have you tried letting Odryssians go to war with Triballi (they tend to do that on turn 2-3) and then grab Odryssian capital as soon as their armies leave? Also, I'd try getting everyone and their mothers in law to join my wars with Tylis and later Odryssia. Helps to secure borders later (as you get green all around you).

Molossian dogs work nicely to take care of spear-chuckers; then again, as early Macedon, you hardly have cash to maintain mercenaries.

But yes, Odryssians (and even Tylis) seem to be bad news for any Greek-type armies. I'm playing as Junia now, allied with Sparta and Athens. Odryssians and Tylis managed to take out Macedon and are putting pressure on Athens and Sparta now.

[al Roumi]

Encouraging news! Also, anything that undermines a phalanx is good, I'm getting a bit sick of pikes (ok, Sarissae?) again (after recovering since R1).

They also managed to put pike infantry in pike formation on a ladder, which killed 2 Hastati before I managed to dogpile enough things on them for them to die:

Um, is this right? A Phalanx UP A LADDER? Sounds bonkers. Or a bug....

[Slaists]

Pikes and their phalanxes are close to useless since a few patches ago. Just aim your javelins at them and they're gone in seconds. Don't even need javeliners, or flanking for that matter, though, in many cases, even (good) sword infantry can beat pikes head on.

[Myth]

Have you tried letting Odryssians go to war with Triballi (they tend to do that on turn 2-3) and then grab Odryssian capital as soon as their armies leave? Also, I'd try getting everyone and their mothers in law to join my wars with Tylis and later Odryssia. Helps to secure borders later (as you get green all around you).

Molossian dogs work nicely to take care of spear-chuckers; then again, as early Macedon, you hardly have cash to maintain mercenaries.

But yes, Odryssians (and even Tylis) seem to be bad news for any Greek-type armies. I'm playing as Junia now, allied with Sparta and Athens. Odryssians and Tylis managed to take out Macedon and are putting pressure on Athens and Sparta now.

I did that on my first playthrough. They went and took Appolonia and then the almighty Adriaei came down and crushed them for their insolence. While facing their second stack rebels spawned Tylis again and I conceded. Rebel stacks are very high chevroned units now, can't be shrugged off by garrisons.

[Sp4]

Pikes and their phalanxes are close to useless since a few patches ago. Just aim your javelins at them and they're gone in seconds. Don't even need javeliners, or flanking for that matter, though, in many cases, even (good) sword infantry can beat pikes head on.

Good sword infantry not so much. It's the throwing spears they throw on their charge. Pike infantry, no matter the quality, are really really vulnerable to anything that flies around.

[Slaists]

I did that on my first playthrough. They went and took Appolonia and then the almighty Adriaei came down and crushed them for their insolence. While facing their second stack rebels spawned Tylis again and I conceded. Rebel stacks are very high chevroned units now, can't be shrugged off by garrisons.

The rebels usually spawn with 3-4 units and then recruit more as the turns go by. If you get rid of them at the start, not too much of a problem even with high xp chevrons.

As to rebellions in general, could it be that you're favoring the military side of the research tree? With a few extra points in cultural conversion, public order and pop growth (the latter for temple slots), rebellions dont seem much of an issue even on legendary; unless, pesky AI spies cause unrest, of course.

Good sword infantry not so much. It's the throwing spears they throw on their charge. Pike infantry, no matter the quality, are really really vulnerable to anything that flies around.

Will have to pay closer attention to that. I just know whenever I have a stationary line of pikes facing strong AI sword infantry, those buggers somehow manage to get between the pikes causing the pike unit to switch to swords.

[Myth]

I always get tier 3 barracks before anything else. We're talking early game here, the first 10 turns.

I'm experimenting with a heavy focus on slingers to outrange the Thracians.

Also, this line made me lol "Your worthless goods do not interest Pharaoh, from whom all wealth flows. Sell them to fools elsewhere!"

[Sp4]

Will have to pay closer attention to that. I just know whenever I have a stationary line of pikes facing strong AI sword infantry, those buggers somehow manage to get between the pikes causing the pike unit to switch to swords.

Yeah that is what they do with the throwing spears. They don't kill 5 or 6 people like in most cases but they'll take out the first line and some people in the second even, so by the time the phalanx has reshuffled and put new pikes up in the first line, the infantry is already fighting sword fights with the second (now first) line.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Pike infantry, no matter the quality, are really really vulnerable to anything that flies around.

Obviously, the devs never watched 300

[Sp4]

Obviously, the devs never watched 300

The guys in 300 are hoplites. They are sufficiently invulnerable to arrows and such in the game, especially the heavy armoured, high morale (Spartan) kind although any hoplites are a bad thing to shoot missiles at. As the Scythians, you'll have a lot of fun fighting mainly Greeks because you'll need to research the more ammo tech for your horse archers before you can even hope to do anything against a half decent stack of hoplites + ranged infantry.

[Myth]

The guys in 300 are hoplites. They are sufficiently invulnerable to arrows and such in the game, especially the heavy armoured, high morale (Spartan) kind although any hoplites are a bad thing to shoot missiles at. As the Scythians, you'll have a lot of fun fighting mainly Greeks because you'll need to research the more ammo tech for your horse archers before you can even hope to do anything against a half decent stack of hoplites + ranged infantry.

Pergamon likes spamming stacks of 19 hoplites and a hoplite general. Gave me a hell of a time to wipe out with HAs. I had to fight, retreat and fight a second battle just to have enough arrows to whittle them down. That was with the Massagetae. Perhaps that high tier Royal Scythian jav-cav will shred them if the javs fly from the back?

[al Roumi]

I had to fight, retreat and fight a second battle just to have enough arrows to whittle them down.

Ugh, and that's why I can't bring myself to play as the nomad factions. I know battles are generaly only 5-10 minutes or so usually but having to fight the same one again and again (and i bet they are longer as you skirmish all day!) sounds like a chore.

[Sp4]

I started playing a campaign as them but couldn't be bothered after a while. Siege assaults are impossible cause you can't attack with your horse archers and your infantry is the worst in the game (I don't even know why they have any... probably to push battering rams), fighting heavily armoured units is a real pain in the rear. Basically, you want to become friends and not worry about anything Greek from turn one, although I can see factions like the Egyptians and maybe Seleucids not being so terrible cause they don't have quality hoplites.

Still, late game, horse archers aren't that great and you have to combine them with the heavy cav you get as a Nomad faction (they have more or less the same roster) and I think I would try to expand West asap, get into the Celtic regions and recruit an army or two of mercenary Celtic swords and then come back for the hoplite spammers.

[Myth]

I started playing a campaign as them but couldn't be bothered after a while. Siege assaults are impossible cause you can't attack with your horse archers and your infantry is the worst in the game (I don't even know why they have any... probably to push battering rams), fighting heavily armoured units is a real pain in the rear. Basically, you want to become friends and not worry about anything Greek from turn one, although I can see factions like the Egyptians and maybe Seleucids not being so terrible cause they don't have quality hoplites.

Still, late game, horse archers aren't that great and you have to combine them with the heavy cav you get as a Nomad faction (they have more or less the same roster) and I think I would try to expand West asap, get into the Celtic regions and recruit an army or two of mercenary Celtic swords and then come back for the hoplite spammers.

The Seleucids DO have quality hoplites. They get Shield Bearers which are only a tad weaker than Royal Spartans but you can produce an infinite amount of them (and you can only get 6 Royal Spartans online)

[Slaists]

The Seleucids DO have quality hoplites. They get Shield Bearers which are only a tad weaker than Royal Spartans but you can produce an infinite amount of them (and you can only get 6 Royal Spartans online)

Yes, but he's talking about horse archer faction chances of success against Seleucid AI. As far as the Seleucid AI is concerned, I have yet to see them field anything much higher than desert spearmen... Similar to AI Rome that still fields majority rorarii armies.

[Sp4]

Yeah I was talking about SP. The AI rarely gets to the point where they will spam their highest quality units, which the exception for certain Celtic factions with their Oathsworn warriors.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Siege assaults are impossible cause you can't attack with your horse archers and your infantry is the worst in the game

Are horse archers still restricted by a limited firing arc?

[Sp4]

I am not sure but I don't think so. It may show an arc but they'll happily shoot anything in any direction when on the move. So will skirmisher cav.

[Myth]

Are horse archers still restricted by a limited firing arc?

Horse archers will get creamed by slingers in a siege assault of a major settlement.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Horse archers will get creamed by slingers in a siege assault of a major settlement.

That's pretty much always been the case, even in R1. My question is referring to the firing arc I've seen in video clips. Is that still the case?

[Slaists]

That's pretty much always been the case, even in R1. My question is referring to the firing arc I've seen in video clips. Is that still the case?

I don't remember seeing firing archs for horse archers in R2. That was something implemented in Empire (I guess, they just "copied-pasted" the musket cavalry firing arch for horse archers there).

[Sp4]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fWVthMjnok

Amazonian warrior chicks DLC, woohoo!

[Hooahguy]

In addition to the DLC units, the Suebi also got 4 new units (some cavalry, swordsmen, and skirmishers) plus a number of other free units.

A nice overview:

[Kamakazi]

Interesting to say the least... but I will be adamant about not using these units in my armies.... so I cant say that it will affect me much

[Slaists]

That new Suebi unit: "horse runners" -- do they use horses as they are historically supposed to (ride horse to destination, then dismount, charge in, do damage, hop back on horse and ride away) or they're just foot skirmishers? I suspect the latter.