State of the Game

[Sp4]

I have no problem doing diplomacy with anyone after it all kind of takes off and goes into the mid game.. The downside is, if I overdo it, it kind of looks like this after 60-80 turns.

Defensive alliance XXX
Client State XXXXXX
Trade Partner XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
War XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

You end up getting into so many wars with factions you will probably never see because there is like a continent of client states/allies between you and them.

[easytarget]

I look forward to the point in the campaign where everyone in the diplo screen is not staring back at me red.

[al Roumi]

I look forward to the point in the campaign where everyone in the diplo screen is not staring back at me red.

You should try playing a greek faction which likes greeks. That way you'll have loads of friends around the pelopolynese. I was about to recommend Bactria but they have the small (small) problem of having to fight through most of Asia to find their friends...

With Rome, I've found that if I can sign NA pacts with Sparta and Athens, I usually end up being friendly/allied with them. Especially as one ends up focussing on Carthage and North Africa to begin with. Obviously, if the Greek cities have already declared war on you then, er, that won't work... Look to Carthage's enemies (if they have any) for friendships. In a few of my campaigns, they have started wars with the Arrevacii (the gauls), so providing youc an stomach friendship with the long haired ones, they have at times been solid friends of mine in Rome campaigns.

[Sp4]

I look forward to the point in the campaign where everyone in the diplo screen is not staring back at me red.

You can achieve this with any faction. Just don't declare war on everyone the moment you see them and take diplomacy into account when you start conquering things. Attack people who are at war with people who are friendly to you. Offer to join wars (some factions pay a lot of money for this). That sort of stuff.

[easytarget]

Seriously, do you really think I declared war on everyone and that's the reason I'm pointing this out?

[al Roumi]

Seriously, do you really think I declared war on everyone and that's the reason I'm pointing this out?

You ARE in a Rome campaign, right?

Edit: allthough IRL of course the Roman's only started, ahem, legal wars

[Sp4]

Seriously, do you really think I declared war on everyone and that's the reason I'm pointing this out?

No, I am just saying it easier to make AI friends than you make it out to be.

So a few more observations:

Campaign: diplomacy seems to be working a bit better. Within three turns I got three offers for trading and non-aggression pacts, which I think is rather impressive considering how Ive never seen that before. Playing as the Getae, by the way.

Battles: Here is where I was surprised. The AI actually did well. Usually when Im in these massive battles they bunch up and cant seem to form a proper battle line, but today I played a battle, 6k on my side, 5k on their side, and they formed proper battle lines and everything, and they actually inflicted some serious casualties on me. And I wouldnt really say we were evenly matched either, I had mostly medium spear/sword infantry while they had mostly spear levies and skirmishers with one unit of heavy infantry and two shock cavalry units, so I was surprised they managed 1.2k casualties on me. They managed their ranged units very well, I think thats what took most of my men, which really just means I need to get more cavalry next time. But either way, Im impressed. Ill post again since I have a siege battle coming up.

What mod is that? I never seen to get past the 2000 mark unless it involves multiple armies, in which case the AI is bad.

[easytarget]

Just because it amuses me the attitude necessary to make a comment that indicates you know more about my campaign than I do, the one, you know, actually looking at it, I'll play along here.

What would you suggest I do to improve hostile relations with a dozen factions when usually the first step is trading with them and they won't, not even when I throw all the money I currently have at them.

Share your wisdom here, I'm all ears.

[easytarget]

So, after my rant above I decided I'd sit one turn, save 5k and throw that amount at a faction to induce trade, and it worked. Trouble is, I still find that broken because the starting state of every faction I uncovered from year one started hostile except for one, which showed as neutral.

My point here was just an observation that in my opinion the game design should at least start neutral towards pretty much anyone. Sure this will change quickly based on your actions. But to start hostile and then expect me to throw 5k at you (btw, that is the amount it took to get them to agree, I tried amounts lower than that they laughed at) for a 187 a year trade deal (which they will no doubt abandon me on before I even recoup the initial investment) is stupid.

[Sp4]

Just because it amuses me the attitude necessary to make a comment that indicates you know more about my campaign than I do, the one, you know, actually looking at it, I'll play along here.

What would you suggest I do to improve hostile relations with a dozen factions when usually the first step is trading with them and they won't, not even when I throw all the money I currently have at them.

Share your wisdom here, I'm all ears.

They have an aversion to trading with you if you don't have fancy stuff. Go get fancy stuff (resources) from half the world away. Yes, I know it doesn't make sense. Until then, park 3 armies next to the border and start with a NAP. They'll even pay you for that and like you.

[Hooahguy]

Did you have any artillery in your army? If you didn't that probably explains the AA forming up properly. Whenever the player has artillery (and the AI does not) the AI just rushes across the field all bunched up. Without artillery they do form up pretty nicely. It has been that way for quite a while.

Im only on turn 6-7 so no artillery. I might have to experiment with this though.

What mod is that? I never seen to get past the 2000 mark unless it involves multiple armies, in which case the AI is bad.

Just Radious.

[Sp4]

Im only on turn 6-7 so no artillery. I might have to experiment with this though.


Just Radious.

Yeah I must have been remembering something wrong or playing with DeI for too long. I'm playing a mostly vanilla campaign at the moment and armies that are mostly infantry are about 3k while it's 2.2-2.5k for some cav or artillery mixed in.

[Slaists]

I look forward to the point in the campaign where everyone in the diplo screen is not staring back at me red.

Hmm, really, is it an RTW 2 campaign you're playing? :)

[Hooahguy]

So a few more observations:

Campaign: diplomacy seems to be working a bit better. Within three turns I got three offers for trading and non-aggression pacts, which I think is rather impressive considering how Ive never seen that before. Playing as the Getae, by the way.

Battles: Here is where I was surprised. The AI actually did well. Usually when Im in these massive battles they bunch up and cant seem to form a proper battle line, but today I played a battle, 6k on my side, 5k on their side, and they formed proper battle lines and everything, and they actually inflicted some serious casualties on me. And I wouldnt really say we were evenly matched either, I had mostly medium spear/sword infantry while they had mostly spear levies and skirmishers with one unit of heavy infantry and two shock cavalry units, so I was surprised they managed 1.2k casualties on me. They managed their ranged units very well, I think thats what took most of my men, which really just means I need to get more cavalry next time. But either way, Im impressed. Ill post again since I have a siege battle coming up.

[Slaists]

Did you have any artillery in your army? If you didn't that probably explains the AA forming up properly. Whenever the player has artillery (and the AI does not) the AI just rushes across the field all bunched up. Without artillery they do form up pretty nicely. It has been that way for quite a while.

[easytarget]

So a few more observations:

Campaign: diplomacy seems to be working a bit better. Within three turns I got three offers for trading and non-aggression pacts, which I think is rather impressive considering how Ive never seen that before. Playing as the Getae, by the way.

Not what I'm seeing, I'm playing the Roman faction everyone loves to hate.

[easytarget]

Hmm, really, is it an RTW 2 campaign you're playing? :)

Run of the mill Roman campaign. Normal no less, haha

[Slaists]

Run of the mill Roman campaign. Normal no less, haha

OK, I won't post a screen of my legendary Junia campaign (started in version 13.1, vanilla): there's plenty of green around me. Usually, I don't pay (much) for diplo agreements. Just pick opportune moments when the faction is more likely to be agreeable (beaten up by some other faction, you just killed captives of an enemy of theirs, etc.)

Anyway, Junia are meant to be a difficult faction play with diplomatically. Junia and the other one like them is Barcids for Carthage.

As to "grains of wisdom": starting with a NAP is usually the way I go. Also, watch out for friends of the faction you are interested in. Often it is easier to secure some agreements with remote "friends" which in due course improves relations with the target for "having agreements with x".

Another trick is to break an agreement with an enemy of the target (if it suits your situation). You'll get a bonus with the target "for breaking an agreement with x".

Agent actions on enemies of the target frequently work wonders too. So does raiding.

Being steadfast in diplomatic reliability is important too. Much harder to secure anything even one notch below that (on very hard, legendary difficulty at least).

Example form my Junia campaign: Volcae, and Massilia start red with Junia. By the time my armies got to Cisalpine Gaul, Arverni had crept in there already. Arverni were at war with Massilia. The latter allied with Volcae.

Joining Massilia in their war against Arverni secured me trade, nap and eventually a defensive alliance. Meanwhile, having all those arrangements with Massilia made Volcae like me (a lot). Carrying out further hostilities against Arverni raised Volcae opinion of Junia to an extent that they also agreed to trade, nap, military access and DA (in that order).

No money paid for any of that, just grabbed Mediolanum from Arverni and beat up their militia armies a few times while killing captives.

[easytarget]

Fair enough, I'll soldier on and stop complaining about how I think it should be and simply deal with what is being handed to me.

[Slaists]

Fair enough, I'll soldier on and stop complaining about how I think it should be and simply deal with what is being handed to me.

To be honest, I find the RTW 2 diplo AI way too agreeable even on legendary difficulty. Unless it is the very beginning of the campaign, I never get backstabbed nowadays (backstabbing was still happening around patch 3); AI's do not form alliance blocks against me, etc. The peacefulness becomes boring after a while.