State of the Game

**easytarget** · 07-02-2014, 21:48

Fair enough, I'll soldier on and stop complaining about how I think it should be and simply deal with what is being handed to me.

**Slaists** · 07-02-2014, 21:58

Originally Posted by easytarget

Fair enough, I'll soldier on and stop complaining about how I think it should be and simply deal with what is being handed to me.

To be honest, I find the RTW 2 diplo AI way too agreeable even on legendary difficulty. Unless it is the very beginning of the campaign, I never get backstabbed nowadays (backstabbing was still happening around patch 3); AI's do not form alliance blocks against me, etc. The peacefulness becomes boring after a while.

**Myth** · 07-02-2014, 23:17

Started a Royal Scythia game. Pretty entertaining. Cimmeria DoWed me. I laid siege, they had 5000 men to my fullsack of armoured HAs. I ran out of ammo, killed all slingers in melee, retreated, emptied more ammo on them. Then I sabotaged their barracks. With 5 units per seson recruitment and no hoplites available to them, i'm sure I will conquer them. However, i decided to attack a Basternae minor settlement for food. Got a repeating freeze crash at the start of the battle, as soon as I order my horses around. The Ai has town defenders + 3 ships. is this again the issue with combined defending armies?

**easytarget** · 07-03-2014, 02:49

Originally Posted by Slaists

To be honest, I find the RTW 2 diplo AI way too agreeable even on legendary difficulty. Unless it is the very beginning of the campaign, I never get backstabbed nowadays (backstabbing was still happening around patch 3); AI's do not form alliance blocks against me, etc. The peacefulness becomes boring after a while.

Well, I'm still seeing everyone on the map around me not only hate my guts they are now all attacking me. Two stacks from Athens, one stack from Sparta, and the real fun began when a barbarian tribe showed up with a full stack that was allied with Athens that decided all they wanted to do was out run me all over the Italian peninsula pillaging.

So, I'd say my experience differs radically from yours.

As for your alliance blocks comment, I've written about this repeatedly on the main forum. The gist of the idea being the code should keep keep an eye on the power (measured however you like, units, settlements held, whatever) of the human player and a ratio maintained just as naturally develops when four players play Risk (which is the whole reason you quickly learn this is a game not to play because balance of power combined with dice = never ending game). This would require a bit of play testing of course (not something it would appear in my opinion the current CA has any remote clue how to do) to set the balance, but at whatever tipping point you set, the other AIs still in the game that are neighbors are bumped on diplo or simply force allied to create power blocks that can counter the human.

**Hooahguy** · 07-03-2014, 02:51

I know this sounds silly but maybe its because you are Roman and thus everyone is supposed to hate you? I dont really know, Rome historically didnt get along too well with her neighbors, after all.

Unless you see the same thing with other factions as well, totally invalidating my point.

**easytarget** · 07-03-2014, 03:01

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Playing Rome you are simply supposed to be hated by everyone on the map. I know that was certainly what happened in my CIG campaign, and by mid campaign everyone was sending stacks at me non stop.

I'm just going to stop with the diplo and focus on taking people out. Perhaps down the road opportunities will arise for diplo.

The only reason I've been talking about it for this long is because Slaisits and SP4 continue to post up remarks cracking me up, seemingly implying they've somehow magically figured diplo out. And the reason that's funny to me is because there's absolutely nothing about diplo or anything else in any TW game that is remotely complex enough to ever suggest it "requires figuring out". haha

**ReluctantSamurai** · 07-03-2014, 05:01

Sure as hell doesn't seem like you guys are playing the same game

I've never bothered much with diplomacy since the beginning and Shogun 1. I do have to admit that I'm a sucker for an ally that actually remains loyal, and I will do everything in my power to make sure they survive. The most extreme case I can remember is an alliance I had with Macedonia in RTW 1, playing as Armenia. It lasted for nearly 100yrs. even with a long common border. When the Romans started making an all out effort to eliminate them, I put my expansion on hold for several years in order to spank them back into place. The three provinces I 'rescued' from Roman rule, I gave to my long-standing ally fully expecting them to finally turn on me. To my astonishment, they proceeded to pick up where I left off and continue to run the Romans out of Greece.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I got a great deal of enjoyment out of that game simply because I had gotten an alliance that actually worked.

I don't get it. If I'm to participate in the game through these systems by making choices, hopefully meaningful ones, I have to be allowed to do something, I can't get these guys to even talk to me.

One reason I still love playing GalCiv 2 is because there are 4 ways to win a campaign....the usual kill everyone and sort it out later; a tech victory by accumulating a certain amount of technology points; an influence victory by having your political influence dominate a given % of the galaxy; and a diplo victory by having your alliance be the last races left (and this can be with multiple allies). Very satisfying to pull off a win without having to vaporize everything not flying your banner. I once won a campaign without fighting a single fleet engagement. I just kept feeding advanced starships to my two allies (though not my best designs

just in case they turned on me) and let them do all the fighting. When ever a planet went rebel, I moved my transports in to take over. I still consider that game to be the most enjoyable of all the GalCiv games I've ever played.........

**Myth** · 07-03-2014, 07:49

@easytarget with Rome one minor mistake in the first 5 turns can lead to chain DoWs or to smooth sailing into NAP land.

On turn 1 Athens and Sparta don't care much for you, but they don't hate you either. If you ever start a scrap with Epirus however, they will like you more. Trade with Athens is possible as soon as you upgrade 3 resource minor settlements to tier 2. Once you trade with Athens, you can NAP Sparta (you must have a full legion by now). Once you NAP Sparta, you can NAP Athens. It's a snowball effect.

If you disband any units on turn 1 before recruiting more, you might just get chain DoWed by both of them.

**easytarget** · 07-04-2014, 16:36

Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

One reason I still love playing GalCiv 2 is because there are 4 ways to win a campaign....the usual kill everyone and sort it out later; a tech victory by accumulating a certain amount of technology points; an influence victory by having your political influence dominate a given % of the galaxy; and a diplo victory by having your alliance be the last races left (and this can be with multiple allies). Very satisfying to pull off a win without having to vaporize everything not flying your banner. I once won a campaign without fighting a single fleet engagement. I just kept feeding advanced starships to my two allies (though not my best designs

just in case they turned on me) and let them do all the fighting. When ever a planet went rebel, I moved my transports in to take over. I still consider that game to be the most enjoyable of all the GalCiv games I've ever played.........

Yep, I've seen victory conditions and diplo done better, no surprise that. GalCiv was well done on that front. And funny, come to think of it, your example of winning by feeding allies units is something I've often done in Civ V with the introduction of those little client states they scattered all over the map. That was a very cool way to help keep another power in check w/o directly going to war with them, used to feed them units and money to wage a war by proxy.

Would be cool if in R2 diplo if I could give units to allies and certainly it would be nice to give them settlements.

**Slaists** · 07-09-2014, 03:49

Originally Posted by easytarget

The only reason I've been talking about it for this long is because Slaisits and SP4 continue to post up remarks cracking me up, seemingly implying they've somehow magically figured diplo out. And the reason that's funny to me is because there's absolutely nothing about diplo or anything else in any TW game that is remotely complex enough to ever suggest it "requires figuring out". haha

While I'm not at any point claiming to have "figured out" anything magical about TW diplo [or anything TW related], here is my legendary Junia campaign, turn 11, vanilla game, legendary difficulty, patch 13.1.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

and this is a few turns later:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

;)

**Sp4** · 07-09-2014, 06:50

Look what I have somehow done =S I don't think I figured anything out, I just broke it to the point where there are two factions with the same name.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Slaists** · 07-03-2014, 14:11

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

I know this sounds silly but maybe its because you are Roman and thus everyone is supposed to hate you? I dont really know, Rome historically didnt get along too well with her neighbors, after all.

Unless you see the same thing with other factions as well, totally invalidating my point.

He is not only playing as Rome; he is playing as Junia. Junia get a global diplo malus with all factions. The other two Roman factions are much easier (at least diplomacy wise). Cornelia even get a boost to relationships with Greeks.