Who won WWII?

[ICantSpellDawg]

IMHO, Soviet Union would have won the war even without the US...

The US only got in on the action when the war was already decided, and it was about who got what piece...

I doubt this. The U.S. government became involved in 1942 - the war didn't end until 1945. I wouldn't say that Germany was "on the cusp of losing" in 1942. If the US had stayed out entirely, The Germans would have likely held North Africa and continued moving East in Europe with stronger staying power (as a result of its logistical boost). Additionally, as Japan would not have been involved in a Pacific War, it would have likely started pushing into Siberia as it had taken all of the Islands that it believed it could; the Soviet Union would have been further weakened in their West and forced to use some measure to fight Japan. My money would be on German and Japanese hegemony in Europe and Asia.

The Soviet union would have had a population of 180 million or so. The Axis powers had a population of 280 million and were consistently more technologically advanced and efficient.

[Kadagar_AV]

I doubt this. The U.S. government became involved in 1942 - the war didn't end until 1945.

The point is that the war had its turning points before the US joined. Again, I don't say the US had nothing to do with winning the war, I am saying they only sped up a process that was bound to happen regardless.

Compare these 2:

A) Soviet Union didn't join the war.
B) United States didn't join the war.

What do you think would have the most impact? Again, the allies could have done it without the US, without Soviet and Germany focusing 100% on Britain the war would have been lost no matter how many ship convoys the US sent.

I wouldn't say that Germany was "on the cusp of losing" in 1942. If the US had stayed out entirely, The Germans would have likely held North Africa and continued to East in Europe with stronger staying power (as a result of its logistical boost.

I would say that Germany was "on the cusp of losing" in 1942, heck, that is my sole argument here.

By then the german forces fought a retreating war on the major and important front. As I have said, Russia hadn't just repelled the attack by then, they were pushing back.

Additionally, as Japan would not have been involved in a Pacific War, it would have likely started pushing into Siberia as it had taken all of the Islands that it believed it could and The Soviet Union would have been further weakened in their West.

Japan didn't have the logistics to seriously threaten Russia. Russia had already absolutely SMASHED Japan in a land war. On top of that, handling logistics between Japan and Moscow on soviet home turf.... It's mind boggling, to say the least.

Specially knowing the allies would reinforce and fight back.

My money would be on German and Japanese hegemony in Europe and Asia.

The US had interests in Asia... and we all know how it ends up when people attack US interests... Japan knew this. Logistically a ground war was off the map. Only thing Japan could do was build up a navy and airforce to directly attack the west, in a "one hit wonder" way.

Failing that, they were ******.

[ICantSpellDawg]

The point is that the war had its turning points before the US joined. Again, I don't say the US had nothing to do with winning the war, I am saying they only sped up a process that was bound to happen regardless.

Compare these 2:

A) Soviet Union didn't join the war.
B) United States didn't join the war.

What do you think would have the most impact? Again, the allies could have done it without the US, without Soviet and Germany focusing 100% on Britain the war would have been lost no matter how many ship convoys the US sent.




I would say that Germany was "on the cusp of losing" in 1942, heck, that is my sole argument here.

By then the german forces fought a retreating war on the major and important front. As I have said, Russia hadn't just repelled the attack by then, they were pushing back.




Japan didn't have the logistics to seriously threaten Russia. Russia had already absolutely SMASHED Japan in a land war. On top of that, handling logistics between Japan and Moscow on soviet home turf.... It's mind boggling, to say the least.

Specially knowing the allies would reinforce and fight back.



The US had interests in Asia... and we all know how it ends up when people attack US interests... Japan knew this. Logistically a ground war was off the map. Only thing Japan could do was build up a navy and airforce to directly attack the west, in a "one hit wonder" way.

Failing that, they were ******.

Well - your question was who won WW2. I would argue that neither side would have beaten the Axis without the other. I won't attempt to diminish the monumental role that the USSR played, but I think that they would have lost. Without the Soviet Union, the US likely wouldn't have had the guts to invade Europe.